Bishop and Knight piece rating controversy.

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Pilgor

So I recently bought a chess book called "Learning Chess Visually". In one of the chapters it mentioned that in actuality, the bishop was worth 3.25 "points" and the knight was worth 3 because the bishop was more valuable in endgame strageties.

I don't agree at all, mainly because I like using knights more than I like using bishops, but does Chess.com agree? (with the book)

Lievin

As long as I know, the value of a piece depends on the position, although in general (and out of the position context) it is true that the "people who has deep understanding of chess" gives a little more value to the bishop than to the knight.

But the interesting point for you, I think, is whether you can understand this nuances in piece values (I mean, the "how" and "why"). And judging for your rating, you can not. Do not take this as an offense; I have to say that I can not understand them, neither. We simply have to learn a lot of more basic things before we can understand/worry about the "exact" value of the bishop.

So, at the end, the fact that you (or any other player) prefer the knight to the bishop has nothing to do with the numerical value of the pieces. I think that the value of the pieces, as long as I know, has its reasons in a deep and very advanced judgement that the average amateur player, like me, is not capable to do or understand.

Good luck in your games.

CowboyNoel

There are "rules of thumb" and as Leivin said, the value of a piece depends on the position.  A Ns value is adaptable.  resting on the outside edge it is weak. more towards the center, where it attacks more squares it is stronger.  It also gains strength towards the 5th, 6th, and possibly the 7th rank away from it's starting side.  Having a B pair is considered stronger than a N pair as they are long range. But lose one and 1/2 of the board is inaccessable. Plus the N changed color with every move. Another consideration is if it is a closed or open game.  Ns are better in a locked up closed game. 

algorab

From "Rethinking the Chess pieces" by Soltis . In this table is reported the average mobility of the pieces obtained from a sample of matches (pawn =1) x number of moves.

Unfortunately the dynamic value of the king is not reported Frown

MOBILITY OF THE PIECES  
    MOVES  
  .6-25 .26-45 .46-65
Queen 6.6 7 9.6
Rook 2.6 4.3 5.1
Bishop 3.1 3.5 3.8
Knight 3.3 3.3 3.3

Notes

plutonia
Shadowknight911 wrote:

Fine's 30 rules of chess:  Bishops are better than Knights in almost all cases, except for blocked pawn positions.

http://www.calnorthyouthchess.org/WeibelChess/30Rules.html

 

He meant in the endgame. And those "rules" are clearly directed towards beginners. Chess is too complicated to be generalized in that way.

 

The piece value chart is just a cruch beginners use to not give up a R for a N or a Q for N+B. Even the average club player doesn't have to consider it anymore. Every exchange must be assessed in the specific position.

algorab
DJDopamine wrote:

Interesting table, thanks for posting that.

I think the main issue with piece value is that it is an evaluation in the present. Through calculation, these values can potentially be adjusted, but relative to the length of a game this remains more or less within the "present", as deep calculation is difficult and is largely the aim of chess. The result of evaluating piece values in the current board position is, of course, very important. It is a skill which takes years to understand before being able to execute with success. However, perhaps the more important skill is not in being able to evaluate the relative piece values, but to know where the game is heading, and knowing when piece values are even of significance. For example, shortly after the opening in a closed position with locked central pawns, a rook seems quite useless. It may make sense that a knight is worth more, but after a few pawn exchanges this could suddenly become the opposite. This is quite obvious, but there is more... Are pawn exchanges possible for your opponent? Will the position be locked down for long? These questions can be very difficult amongst attempting to calculate the tactical variations of the game. Why is chess so complex?

Yeah it explains the logic of the exchange sac too ...

If you include the mobility of the King and considering that till the endgame he's a liability the values could be this

           .6-25       .26-45    .46-65

King       -               -             4

ElKitch

2 bisshops > 2 knights

unless the position is closed, then 2 knights > 2 bisshops.

For Economy Chess I have been thinking alot about this, since you can buy pieces they have to have some kind of worth. players can customize the pieces for themselves, but I chose these prices:

knight: 75 coins

bisshop: 78 coins

This is mainly because people will be able to buy multiple bishops, and multiple Bs are stronger, so I made them a tad more expensive. 

Funny enough it didnt matter alot. Its the situation that makes the price of a piece cheap or expensive.