Blitz and Bullet are not chess

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pitacho

Bueno si hay que llenarlo con una partida. La jugamos ya.

Ziryab
JeffGreen333 wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:

Oh I agree. It's just that there must be a reason some people think speed chess is so different than traditional chess they might consider it not chess at all.

Well, this is my opinion on speed/bullet chess.   Most games end with one person flagging (losing on time).   You rarely see a checkmate in a 1 minute game.   Therefore, it's more about playing fast than playing accurately.  

 

Ten one minute games all played on May 2, 2020--the last time I played 1 0. I won all ten via checkmate. I usually play 2 1 for bullet and 3 0 for blitz, both are close to the same time control.

 

2Ke21-0

Bullet and blitz chess requires swift tactical recognition, flagging skills, and strong intuition. Classical and correspondence chess requires developed strategic thinking, deep calculation, a complete opening repertoire, and an overall high-quality game. Both time controls are polar opposites of each other. But that does not make one chess and the other "not chess". They are simply different versions of chess that test different skills.

SmyslovFan

This week, Carlsen said that if you can play chess you can play blitz. 

We have the best players in the world devoting hours every day to blitz and bullet chess.

 

Do as the best players do, not as the patzers  say.

Ziryab
2Ke21-0 wrote:

Bullet and blitz chess requires swift tactical recognition, flagging skills, and strong intuition. Classical and correspondence chess requires developed strategic thinking, deep calculation, a complete opening repertoire, and an overall high-quality game. Both time controls are polar opposites of each other. But that does not make one chess and the other "not chess". They are simply different versions of chess that test different skills.

 

I think that some pattern recognition is vital no matter what the time control. It helps me in correspondence play and bullet.

2Ke21-0
Ziryab wrote:
2Ke21-0 wrote:

Bullet and blitz chess requires swift tactical recognition, flagging skills, and strong intuition. Classical and correspondence chess requires developed strategic thinking, deep calculation, a complete opening repertoire, and an overall high-quality game. Both time controls are polar opposites of each other. But that does not make one chess and the other "not chess". They are simply different versions of chess that test different skills.

 

I think that some pattern recognition is vital no matter what the time control. It helps me in correspondence play and bullet.

Yes, that is true. But in blitz, you need to be able to spot simple tactics quickly. In correspondence, you need to calculate long tactical lines.

Ziryab
MISTER_McCHESS wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
JeffGreen333 wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:

Oh I agree. It's just that there must be a reason some people think speed chess is so different than traditional chess they might consider it not chess at all.

Well, this is my opinion on speed/bullet chess.   Most games end with one person flagging (losing on time).   You rarely see a checkmate in a 1 minute game.   Therefore, it's more about playing fast than playing accurately.  

 

Ten one minute games all played on May 2, 2020--the last time I played 1 0. I won all ten via checkmate. I usually play 2 1 for bullet and 3 0 for blitz, both are close to the same time control.

 

@ziryab how did you insert that thing at the bottom?

 

JeffGreen333
Ziryab wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
JeffGreen333 wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

Bullet is a true sport. Most people dent that real chess is a sport.

If you can play a game while sitting in a chair, you don't break a sweat and you aren't breathing hard, then it's not a sport.  

 

Now you are dismissing competitive shooting. 

It sure is interesting that quite a few people think that speed chess is so different from traditional chess that they consider it not chess at all. I think the requirements for each dovetail into that discussion about if chess is a sport. 

 

There would seem to be some physical skill involved in bullet. As my reflexes are slowing as I age, my skills at one-minute are subpar relative to my capabilities even in three-minute. I often lose on time.

Ok, there might be a case for OTB bullet being somewhat of a sport, because you are constantly hitting the clock, which could quicken your heartbeat slightly.  lol   Online bullet only involves clicking a mouse button though.   That's hardly an athletic feat of strength or endurance.

JeffGreen333
xknightwarriorx wrote:
JeffGreen333 wrote:
xknightwarriorx wrote:

He actually compared Chess to Monopoly, lmao, I'm done. 

I know, I know.  Monopoly uses dice and cards (luck) and very little strategy, whereas chess is all strategy.   My point is that it's a board game, not a sport.   Instead of comparing it to Monopoly, let's say it's more like Checkers, Chinese Chess, Go, Othello/Reversi, Hex or Pente instead.   Those are all board games that are 100% strategy and no luck.   Better?

 

Chess has nothing to do with go, or checkers. So that's not better. Yes it's not a physical workout, it's a psychological competitive game of intellect, a board game. I get your point but it's not really a point, at most a very small footnote. Even then, a footnote for children. It's not a sport like football or basketball. We know that.

Exactly.   It's not a sport like football or basketball.   Kinda my whole point.   

JeffGreen333
lfPatriotGames wrote:

Because it IS, in fact, a board game. Board games aren't sports. There might be an exception, but I can't think of one. 

Thanks, IfPatriot.

JeffGreen333
Ziryab wrote:
JeffGreen333 wrote:

Well, this is my opinion on speed/bullet chess.   Most games end with one person flagging (losing on time).   You rarely see a checkmate in a 1 minute game.   Therefore, it's more about playing fast than playing accurately.  

 

Ten one minute games all played on May 2, 2020--the last time I played 1 0. I won all ten via checkmate. I usually play 2 1 for bullet and 3 0 for blitz, both are close to the same time control.

Ok, I stand corrected.   The quality was pretty poor in that first game though.   You made an unsound knight sac in the opening and still won somehow.   If that had been a G/10 or longer, you probably would have lost.   

JeffGreen333
2Ke21-0 wrote:

Bullet and blitz chess requires swift tactical recognition, flagging skills, and strong intuition. Classical and correspondence chess requires developed strategic thinking, deep calculation, a complete opening repertoire, and an overall high-quality game. Both time controls are polar opposites of each other. But that does not make one chess and the other "not chess". They are simply different versions of chess that test different skills.

Flagging skills?   lol   

JeffGreen333
SmyslovFan wrote:

This week, Carlsen said that if you can play chess you can play blitz. 

We have the best players in the world devoting hours every day to blitz and bullet chess.

Do as the best players do, not as the patzers  say.

Only because society has dictated that blitz and bullet are more exciting and therefore will attract more viewers.   Covid-19 and the recent trend towards online tournaments isn't helping either.   It's all about the money and sponsorship.   I feel sorry for guys like Fabiano Caruana, Lanier Dominguez and Pentala Harikrishna who are amazing classical players but not so great at blitz.   It's going to be tougher for them to make a living now.

JeffGreen333
bbmaxwell wrote:
SmyslovFan wrote:

This week, Carlsen said that if you can play chess you can play blitz. 

We have the best players in the world devoting hours every day to blitz and bullet chess.

 

Do as the best players do, not as the patzers  say.

I play 3|0 almost exclusively these days. I love blitz.

But many times I feel like it's lacking. There are so many positions where I'm consciously choosing to cut off my analysis and make a practical decision. There are so many positions where I believe the line I've calculated is sufficiently tricky, and for the sake of the time I've invested in making the calculation I'll play it even though I know it's an inferior continuation.

Another good point.  Playing lots of blitz and bullet will have you playing inferior moves to save on time.   So, you'll never get any better at chess that way.   

JeffGreen333
bbmaxwell wrote:
JeffGreen333 wrote:
2Ke21-0 wrote:

Bullet and blitz chess requires swift tactical recognition, flagging skills, and strong intuition. Classical and correspondence chess requires developed strategic thinking, deep calculation, a complete opening repertoire, and an overall high-quality game. Both time controls are polar opposites of each other. But that does not make one chess and the other "not chess". They are simply different versions of chess that test different skills.

Flagging skills?   lol   

Looks like your fastest games on this site are 10 minutes, so it's unsurprising you're not familiar

I don't consider playing for a cheap win on time as being a skill.   I'm a deep thinker, so yeah, I only play G/10 or longer.   When I play faster games than that, I almost always lose on time or make blunders.   In case you didn't notice, my daily rating is much higher than my blitz and rapid ratings.   That's because I'm able to calculate 5-15 moves deep, in every candidate line, when I play daily games.   You can't do that in bullet or blitz (unless you're a Super-GM maybe).  

JeffGreen333
bbmaxwell wrote:

To me there are basically 3... ok maybe 4 modes I can go into when I play blitz ...

Fourth is nearly mindless shuffling when both are close to 0:00. Typical tactics are suicidal checks to break the opponent's premoves and other such sacrifices.

If you're strategy involves "breaking pre-moves" then it's not real chess, but some sort of chess variant.   In fact, I think they should eliminate pre-moves altogether.   You can't make pre-moves in OTB chess, so you shouldn't be able to make them online either.   

JeffGreen333
bbmaxwell wrote:

And so skills emerge from that... even the mindless shufflnig. Let's say I queen (my opponent only has a king now) and I see he's premoving Kd4-e3-d4-e3 etc then every 2nd or 3rd move I  break their pattern by attacking one of the squares.

You let them set up a pattern in the first place so they start to relax and only focus on that. That way when you break it it eats up more of their time. So I'd shuffle my king 2 or 3 moves and while my hand is doing that, my brain and eyes are watching what their king is doing, and I prepare to break their pattern.

That's not chess though.   It's a new game altogether.  Let's call it "Break The Pre-Move".   lol   At best, it's a chess variant.   At worst, it's ruining the game of chess.

JeffGreen333
bbmaxwell wrote:

Sure, the premove phase is a variant.

But I think premoves are a good feature and I think no increment OTB is flawed. If I'm massively ahead, and I know exactly how to win, then I shouldn't lose on time.

If you're some kind of chess purist it seems you'd want to agree that white should never lose the position below

If it were up to me, there would be no clocks at all in chess.   I once won 60 games in a row, playing without a clock.   I am much better without the added opponent of a chess clock.   And no, you shouldn't lose as white in that diagram unless you really suck at chess.  lol   Even a really weak player should get at least a draw (by stalemate) in that game.  

JeffGreen333
bbmaxwell wrote:

The point is if it's OTB with no increment then you could lose on time.

Ehh.  I can lose on time with an increment or no increment.   lol

2Ke21-0

In my opinion, correspondence chess is further from a sport than blitz chess is. In correspondence chess, you are permitted to use an engine. In blitz, it is up to a player's pure skill. In correspondence chess, you can make moves on a board while analyzing. In blitz, your calculation and visualization skills are up to test. Of course, what I said holds true for rapid and blitz, so those are the best time controls, in my opinion, to test a player's true skill.