Blitz and Bullet are not chess

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JeffGreen333
2Ke21-0 wrote:

In my opinion, correspondence chess is further from a sport than blitz chess is. In correspondence chess, you are permitted to use an engine. In blitz, it is up to a player's pure skill. In correspondence chess, you can make moves on a board while analyzing. In blitz, your calculation and visualization skills are up to test. Of course, what I said holds true for rapid and blitz, so those are the best time controls, in my opinion, to test a player's true skill.

I would say that classical chess (40/120, SD/60) is the best test of a player's true skill.   Unfortunately, nobody wants to play a classical game online for 4-6 hours.   A long rapid game, like G/60 or G/90, would also be a pretty good indicator.   

NubbyCheeseking

Main reason I barely play rapid (unless it's for a league or something) is because of stalling

2Ke21-0
JeffGreen333 wrote:
2Ke21-0 wrote:

In my opinion, correspondence chess is further from a sport than blitz chess is. In correspondence chess, you are permitted to use an engine. In blitz, it is up to a player's pure skill. In correspondence chess, you can make moves on a board while analyzing. In blitz, your calculation and visualization skills are up to test. Of course, what I said holds true for rapid and blitz, so those are the best time controls, in my opinion, to test a player's true skill.

I would say that classical chess (40/120, SD/60) is the best test of a player's true skill.   Unfortunately, nobody wants to play a classical game online for 4-6 hours.   A long rapid game, like G/60 or G/90, would also be a pretty good indicator.   

Agreed, but online classical play is becoming more popular nowadays because OTB organizers are maintaining their tournament formats with the only difference being that they reflect them virtually.

JeffGreen333
NubbyCheeseking wrote:

Main reason I barely play rapid (unless it's for a league or something) is because of stalling

That doesn't bother me.   It just gives me more time to plan my strategy.   I'll sit there and wait for 10 or 15 minutes if I'm gonna get a W out of it.

JeffGreen333
2Ke21-0 wrote:
JeffGreen333 wrote:

I would say that classical chess (40/120, SD/60) is the best test of a player's true skill.   Unfortunately, nobody wants to play a classical game online for 4-6 hours.   A long rapid game, like G/60 or G/90, would also be a pretty good indicator.   

Agreed, but online classical play is becoming more popular nowadays because OTB organizers are maintaining their tournament formats with the only difference being that they reflect them virtually.

I'm not talking about USCF-rated tournaments.  I was referring to sites like chess.com and lichess not having classical formats.   

2Ke21-0
JeffGreen333 wrote:
2Ke21-0 wrote:
JeffGreen333 wrote:

I would say that classical chess (40/120, SD/60) is the best test of a player's true skill.   Unfortunately, nobody wants to play a classical game online for 4-6 hours.   A long rapid game, like G/60 or G/90, would also be a pretty good indicator.   

Agreed, but online classical play is becoming more popular nowadays because OTB organizers are maintaining their tournament formats with the only difference being that they reflect them virtually.

I'm not talking about USCF-rated tournaments.  I was referring to sites like chess.com and lichess not having classical formats.   

Yeah, that is unfortunate. sad.png

But if you want slower live chess games. You may be interested in joining the following club which hosts 45+ minute games on a regular weekly schedule. https://www.chess.com/club/slow-chess-league

JeffGreen333
2Ke21-0 wrote:
JeffGreen333 wrote:
2Ke21-0 wrote:
JeffGreen333 wrote:

I would say that classical chess (40/120, SD/60) is the best test of a player's true skill.   Unfortunately, nobody wants to play a classical game online for 4-6 hours.   A long rapid game, like G/60 or G/90, would also be a pretty good indicator.   

Agreed, but online classical play is becoming more popular nowadays because OTB organizers are maintaining their tournament formats with the only difference being that they reflect them virtually.

I'm not talking about USCF-rated tournaments.  I was referring to sites like chess.com and lichess not having classical formats.   

Yeah, that is unfortunate.

But if you want slower live chess games. You may be interested in joining the following club which hosts 45+ minute games on a regular weekly schedule. https://www.chess.com/club/slow-chess-league

I've been in that club for a few years, actually.  I played 3 or 4 tournaments, when I first joined, but then I got busy with other things and the tournament schedule no longer worked for me.   

2Ke21-0
JeffGreen333 wrote:
2Ke21-0 wrote:
JeffGreen333 wrote:
2Ke21-0 wrote:
JeffGreen333 wrote:

I would say that classical chess (40/120, SD/60) is the best test of a player's true skill.   Unfortunately, nobody wants to play a classical game online for 4-6 hours.   A long rapid game, like G/60 or G/90, would also be a pretty good indicator.   

Agreed, but online classical play is becoming more popular nowadays because OTB organizers are maintaining their tournament formats with the only difference being that they reflect them virtually.

I'm not talking about USCF-rated tournaments.  I was referring to sites like chess.com and lichess not having classical formats.   

Yeah, that is unfortunate.

But if you want slower live chess games. You may be interested in joining the following club which hosts 45+ minute games on a regular weekly schedule. https://www.chess.com/club/slow-chess-league

I've been in that club for a few years, actually.  I played 3 or 4 tournaments, when I first joined, but then I got busy with other things and the tournament schedule no longer worked for me.   

Ah, I see. I have not yet played in any of SCL tournament but I plan to some time in the future.

JeffGreen333
2Ke21-0 wrote:

Yeah, that is unfortunate.

But if you want slower live chess games. You may be interested in joining the following club which hosts 45+ minute games on a regular weekly schedule. https://www.chess.com/club/slow-chess-league

I've been in that club for a few years, actually.  I played 3 or 4 tournaments, when I first joined, but then I got busy with other things and the tournament schedule no longer worked for me.   

Ah, I see. I have not yet played in any of SCL tournament but I plan to some time in the future.

I was going to say something like "I hope to play you someday in one of those tournaments", but then I looked at your ratings.  lol   You're a little out of my league.

2Ke21-0
JeffGreen333 wrote:
2Ke21-0 wrote:

Yeah, that is unfortunate.

But if you want slower live chess games. You may be interested in joining the following club which hosts 45+ minute games on a regular weekly schedule. https://www.chess.com/club/slow-chess-league

I've been in that club for a few years, actually.  I played 3 or 4 tournaments, when I first joined, but then I got busy with other things and the tournament schedule no longer worked for me.   

Ah, I see. I have not yet played in any of SCL tournament but I plan to some time in the future.

I was going to say something like "I hope to play you someday in one of those tournaments", but then I looked at your ratings.  lol   You're a little out of my league.

Certainly not in correspondence chess...

JeffGreen333
2Ke21-0 wrote:
JeffGreen333 wrote:

I was going to say something like "I hope to play you someday in one of those tournaments", but then I looked at your ratings.  lol   You're a little out of my league.

Certainly not in correspondence chess...

Technically, correspondence chess is playing by mail.   You can use computers and opening books in correspondence chess.   Daily chess is pretty much the online equivalent of correspondence, except that the pace is a little faster and you cannot use computers, but you can use opening books and an analysis board.   I created my own opening repertoire in a Windows Notepad text document, using Stockfish to help me with some of the variations.   Although, I tweaked it to my style of play and don't usually play the #1 Stockfish move.   At my age, my memory is fading, so I can't memorize all of my openings more than 5 or 6 moves deep any more.   But I never use a computer during a game.

2Ke21-0
JeffGreen333 wrote:
2Ke21-0 wrote:
JeffGreen333 wrote:

I was going to say something like "I hope to play you someday in one of those tournaments", but then I looked at your ratings.  lol   You're a little out of my league.

Certainly not in correspondence chess...

Technically, correspondence chess is playing by mail.   You can use computers and opening books in correspondence chess.   Daily chess is pretty much the online equivalent of correspondence, except that the pace is a little faster and you cannot use computers, but you can use opening books and an analysis board.   I created my own opening repertoire in a Windows Notepad text document, using Stockfish to help me with some of the variations.   Although, I tweaked it to my style of play and don't usually play the #1 Stockfish move.   At my age, my memory is fading, so I can't memorize all of my openings more than 5 or 6 moves deep any more.   But I never use a computer during a game.

I was under the impression that "daily chess" and "correspondence chess" were essentially synonymous terms. I needed re-education.

JeffGreen333
2Ke21-0 wrote:
JeffGreen333 wrote:
2Ke21-0 wrote:
JeffGreen333 wrote:

I was going to say something like "I hope to play you someday in one of those tournaments", but then I looked at your ratings.  lol   You're a little out of my league.

Certainly not in correspondence chess...

Technically, correspondence chess is playing by mail.   You can use computers and opening books in correspondence chess.   Daily chess is pretty much the online equivalent of correspondence, except that the pace is a little faster and you cannot use computers, but you can use opening books and an analysis board.   I created my own opening repertoire in a Windows Notepad text document, using Stockfish to help me with some of the variations.   Although, I tweaked it to my style of play and don't usually play the #1 Stockfish move.   At my age, my memory is fading, so I can't memorize all of my openings more than 5 or 6 moves deep any more.   But I never use a computer during a game.

I was under the impression that "daily chess" and "correspondence chess" were essentially synonymous terms. I needed re-education.

Close, but not quite.  I love daily chess.   It allows me to be creative and play the best game that I am capable of playing.  

alekhineslovechild

I think that bullet and blitz should be reserved for players who believe that their fundamental knowledge is enough. Depending on their goals, different players strive for different benchmarks. For example, hobbyists will learn and practice fewer openings and tactics compared to a club player. If a player is content with their knowledge, they can then try to sharpen their instincts by playing speed chess. Short time controls require subjective decisions more than it requires objective decisions. People will play the move that 'feels right' based on their preliminary analysis of the board. So, experience and talent are the most important factors for speed chess, while calculation takes a back seat. Or, players just want to have fun and proceed without a conscious effort to learn. These are just my thoughts, and I am completely fine with how things are right now. People should play what they want to play.

Ziryab
bbmaxwell wrote:
MISTER_McCHESS wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
JeffGreen333 wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:

Oh I agree. It's just that there must be a reason some people think speed chess is so different than traditional chess they might consider it not chess at all.

Well, this is my opinion on speed/bullet chess.   Most games end with one person flagging (losing on time).   You rarely see a checkmate in a 1 minute game.   Therefore, it's more about playing fast than playing accurately.  

 

Ten one minute games all played on May 2, 2020--the last time I played 1 0. I won all ten via checkmate. I usually play 2 1 for bullet and 3 0 for blitz, both are close to the same time control.

 

@ziryab how did you insert that thing at the bottom?

If you look at the insert PGN part, it says "insert one or more PGN"

So I assume you can do it by inputting multiple PGNs... but I've never tried it.

 

One PGN file consisting of multiple games, in this case ten. Does that clarify?

Ziryab
JeffGreen333 wrote:
bbmaxwell wrote:
JeffGreen333 wrote:
2Ke21-0 wrote:

Bullet and blitz chess requires swift tactical recognition, flagging skills, and strong intuition. Classical and correspondence chess requires developed strategic thinking, deep calculation, a complete opening repertoire, and an overall high-quality game. Both time controls are polar opposites of each other. But that does not make one chess and the other "not chess". They are simply different versions of chess that test different skills.

Flagging skills?   lol   

Looks like your fastest games on this site are 10 minutes, so it's unsurprising you're not familiar

I don't consider playing for a cheap win on time as being a skill.   I'm a deep thinker, so yeah, I only play G/10 or longer.   When I play faster games than that, I almost always lose on time or make blunders.   In case you didn't notice, my daily rating is much higher than my blitz and rapid ratings.   That's because I'm able to calculate 5-15 moves deep, in every candidate line, when I play daily games.   You can't do that in bullet or blitz (unless you're a Super-GM maybe).  

 

My correspondence rating is a wee bit higher than yours, and I rarely can see ten moves deep. In OTB play, I can point you quickly to the three games (ever—in a quarter century of active play) when I calculated nine moves ahead. In correspondence, I have sometimes, maybe often, played out a position on a chessboard, on the analysis board, or more often in my database twenty moves or longer, but I rarely take these seriously beyond about three moves because there are simply too many branches.

Ziryab
2Ke21-0 wrote:

In my opinion, correspondence chess is further from a sport than blitz chess is. In correspondence chess, you are permitted to use an engine. 

 

Not on this site.

Ziryab
JeffGreen333 wrote:
2Ke21-0 wrote:
JeffGreen333 wrote:

I would say that classical chess (40/120, SD/60) is the best test of a player's true skill.   Unfortunately, nobody wants to play a classical game online for 4-6 hours.   A long rapid game, like G/60 or G/90, would also be a pretty good indicator.   

Agreed, but online classical play is becoming more popular nowadays because OTB organizers are maintaining their tournament formats with the only difference being that they reflect them virtually.

I'm not talking about USCF-rated tournaments.  I was referring to sites like chess.com and lichess not having classical formats.   

 

I played two classical games on LiChess yesterday. My local chess club just finished our annual Turkey quads online. I organized the event. The time control was 75+5, a little faster than what we would have played OTB, but still a classical time control. Some exceptional chess was played, too.

Ziryab
2Ke21-0 wrote:

I was under the impression that "daily chess" and "correspondence chess" were essentially synonymous terms. 

 

They are.

Allowing engine use varies. USCF forbids it. ICCF finds it unpreventable. Chess.com forbids it. Kingscrusher acknowledged to me that it is likely common above a certain level on his site. 

TestPatzer

The trick to playing good blitz is to learn how to evaluate a position only a few moves deep. You don't have time to calculate several moves in, like in classical.

You have to look only a few moves ahead, then make a choice, based on that limited depth.

It's definitely not as accurate as standard chess. But that's also part of the fun: trying to play good chess when the clock is working against you.