Borislav Ivanov is BACK!

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waffllemaster
Estragon wrote:
Bradypus wrote:

There are a few points in this story that don't add up:

1. In the room there was a sweep with metal detectors before the shoe thing. Why didn't the metal detectors pick up the phone!?

2. If it would be a phone, the strongest engine would be Stockfisch on Droidfish right? Is Stockfisch on Android strong enhough to beat a GM?

3. The arbiter said Borislav was to be disqualified, but still Borislav turns up for the next round??

 

1.  Look at most metal detectors: they don't usually go all the way to the floor.  They probably aren't using Presidential Event level security.

2.  He's a programmer, it is likely he has something of his own, rigged to understand tapping and respond with vibration patterns.  Dlugy mentions how he taps around feverishly with his feet sometimes.

3.  Organizers may have been in on it.  It's Bulgaria.  Danilov. 

 

The controversy over charges is disappointing but about right, without a criminal record he would get a probation deal for first offense.  But there is no need for a warrant to search his feet: organizers are permitted to institute any necessary rules, and by entering their event you are agreeing to them.

If Ivanov's unusual gait and extra large shoes had been mentioned in earlier reports, even a child could figure out his method.

I think it's likely.  I can't believe they allowed him to continue playing.  Before the next round I seriously would have "tripped" and accidentally stepped on his foot.

"Oops.  Good luck next round man."

Irontiger
Scottrf wrote:

It has nothing to do with majority knows best, it was breaking the rules, therefore cheating. Whether the rules were correct is another matter entirely.

Exactly this, about the Armstrong thing.

Actually it was less clear about Ivanov, there was some debate about whether computer input could be considered as "advice" or "information" as per FIDE rules (but you can guess my point on that). The debate was not whether computer help should be allowed, but whether it was allowed under present FIDE rules (in which case, the rules would need changing, but there would have been no infraction from Ivanov).

dzikus
Irontiger napisał:
Bradypus wrote:

I just don't see how you can accurately send moves with your toes while there is a smartphone in your shoe. I think the phone is to tight to your foot to operate well enough. (...)

In the XIXth century (the photography killed it a bit), spiritism was fashionable in Paris. The medium would conjure up spirits who would write on a blackboard message from the underworld (one of the many variants). Many skeptics attended sessions for the sake of finding out the way it was done and were mystified.

Some of those "mediums" were actually writing with their feet in a perfectly clear writing, and relatively quick as they had to get out of their shoes, grab the chalk that was hidden somewhere and then put back the shoes after having "called the spirits". (EDIT : of course, all of that while you have to distract the two attendants who are watching your hands carefully)

 

(source : Thirteen steps to mentalism, Tony Corinda)

If it is possible to write with your feet, I doubt it is really hard to tap two buttons and send Morse code to the program.

Writing with a foot is nothing when compared to this:

(painted with the feet!)
Irontiger
dzikus wrote:

Writing with a foot is nothing when compared to this:

 
(painted with the feet!)

The main problem is the time constraint. But of course, we agree that some training can get you past anything you would imagine.

 

On a side note : do not feed the troll (WHY_YES_I_CHEAT), as soon as he will be banned his messages will be deleted.

Conflagration_Planet
duck29 wrote:

vibrations is unlikely because even though the virations might be on low and the room might be noisy, if the room quiets down people will definetly hear it so he probably has a tapper attached to his phone which taps morse code onto his foot (we already decided hes an expert programmer).

either way this is unlikely because,

1)theres around 50 moves in a game thats alot of morse taps and make one mistake about a morse tap and the gm will crush him.

2) hed have to walk pretty weirdly to be able to walk around without crushing his phone.

3) that he didnt want to remove his shoes doesnt mean anything, maybe he has a dreaded disease!

 

Vibrations would not be heard. People have cheated at cards using vibrating shoes for decades. They would have a cohort who could see their opponents cards send signals to their shoe devices. Ivanov would be using a different method.

PhoenixTTD
chiaroscuro62 wrote:
 

Sis Phoenix understand that he responded to a post saying it's not a serious crime n the US by posting something that shows it is a serious ctime in Singapore?  Singapore is so over the top on law and order that I would be afraid to go there.

The laws for most countries are similar that I found.  That website spelled out typical sentancing best so I used it.  In the US it is harder to get a summary because it is specific to each state.  The federal government only gets involved if there is something inter-state going on like if he was using the internet.  If so, they could charge him with wire fraud, a very wide and vague law that they can give you up to 20 for violating.  If he just had a computer in his shoe then it would be based on the law of whatever state he is in.  That is unless they wire him the prize money and then the feds can get involved again.

SugeAFC

Using your feet to control an electronic device is clearly feasible, it was done back in the 1970s to beat roulette by a group of phycists going by the name Eudaemons.

niceforkinmove

Ok I am convinced this guy was cheating.  But how?  the article says:

So we all go into this room: the director, the head of security, my friend, myself and Borislav. They have metal detectors and go over every place very carefully if it beeps, and show that there is nothing there. 

Every cell phone I ever owned would trip a metal detector.  Did he make this out of coconuts like the professor from Gilligan's Island?  


Also how exactly do you enter moves on a cell phone with your toes while its in your shoe?  I honestly have trouble entering moves on my cell phone with my fingers.   Are there programs for the blind or something?   This is very hard to understand how this works.  

 

As far as fraud.  In the US generally (states will vary) in order to prove fraud you generally have to prove the person made a statement about a fact (often that happened in the past) Knowing that it was false when he said it and it had to lead to a person relying on that statement to his detriment.  

 

So if you wanted to prosecute players for fraud then organizers would be advised to have players sign something that says that they received no electronic assistance during this game.  Some boilerplate language could be put on the scorecard that the players sign.    This would make it clear that they were giving false statements about something in the past.  

 

If someone did that and then they were put in the next round bracket and played then you might have them for fraud.  But the timing might get tricky due to the requirement to prove reasonable reliance.  Some states might not have a reliance requirement for criminal fraud.  I am not sure.  But I do think it would be worth investigating.  

chiaroscuro62
PhoenixTTD wrote:
chiaroscuro62 wrote:
 

Sis Phoenix understand that he responded to a post saying it's not a serious crime n the US by posting something that shows it is a serious ctime in Singapore?  Singapore is so over the top on law and order that I would be afraid to go there.

The laws for most countries are similar that I found.  That website spelled out typical sentancing best so I used it.  In the US it is harder to get a summary because it is specific to each state.  The federal government only gets involved if there is something inter-state going on like if he was using the internet.  If so, they could charge him with wire fraud, a very wide and vague law that they can give you up to 20 for violating.  If he just had a computer in his shoe then it would be based on the law of whatever state he is in.  That is unless they wire him the prize money and then the feds can get involved again.

There is no chance - none at all - that any state has laws anything like Singapore.  Do you not know about the wacky laws of Singapore?  Singapore is wear they cane people publicly for vandalism and execute people for penny ante drug smuggling.

Conflagration_Planet

I think caning's a good idea.

x-5058622868
niceforkinmove wrote:

Ok I am convinced this guy was cheating.  But how?  the article says:

So we all go into this room: the director, the head of security, my friend, myself and Borislav. They have metal detectors and go over every place very carefully if it beeps, and show that there is nothing there. 

 

That is likely the first search in which Ivanov ended up losing that round.

niceforkinmove
Sunshiny wrote:
niceforkinmove wrote:

Ok I am convinced this guy was cheating.  But how?  the article says:

So we all go into this room: the director, the head of security, my friend, myself and Borislav. They have metal detectors and go over every place very carefully if it beeps, and show that there is nothing there. 

 

That is likely the first search in which Ivanov ended up losing that round.

 

"Myself" would be Max Dlugy.  So he is describing the search in the same room where Borislav refused to take off his shoes.    That is why this is very odd.  

blitzjoker

I think it would be easier to learn to control an electronic device with your feet than to become a grandmaster by the non-cheating route.  Occam's razor or summat.

dzikus
niceforkinmove napisał:
Sunshiny wrote:
niceforkinmove wrote:

Ok I am convinced this guy was cheating.  But how?  the article says:

So we all go into this room: the director, the head of security, my friend, myself and Borislav. They have metal detectors and go over every place very carefully if it beeps, and show that there is nothing there. 

 

That is likely the first search in which Ivanov ended up losing that round.

 

"Myself" would be Max Dlugy.  So he is describing the search in the same room where Borislav refused to take off his shoes.    That is why this is very odd.  

More odd is that Ivanov found that ridiculous excuse for not taking his shoes off. Just think: you are innocent and all you need to prove that is to take off your shoes - would you avoid that if you were faced with a forfeit?

It is possible that a metal detector shows nothing if it is not sensible enough. The device was under his foot. and the shoes were probably sweeped by the detector from the top side - it was unlikely the level of search as found on airports or in the White House.

gambit-man

There are gonna be people who will still say that nothing has yet been found. So long as he is allowed to dodge parts of a search, he'll always have that

LegoPirateSenior
dzikus wrote:

Writing with a foot is nothing when compared to this:

(painted with the feet!)

I'll see your painting, and I'll raise you this:

Mark Goffeney is not the only one, check out Tony Melendez:

Of course, both of them had an additional motivation of having no arms, but then looking at the vestigial upper extremities of Boris, I would not be surprised if he developed additional dexterity in his toes Laughing.

Monster_with_no_Name

So... there are all these genius / infuriated chess GMs having to boycott tournaments because of this guys stunts (which he has pulled 4 times now!) . Every tournament he goes to everyones eye is on him and everyone knows he is cheating. And only now we're hearing that he has a really weird walk....... ??

Are these GM's retarded?
Why didnt they film him walking weird with their camera phones?

Why is there no footage of this guy when he plays?

WalangAlam

Wow! if he was in the US he will probably have a book and a movie too, not to mention an exclusive with Oprah! I guess he will make a killing at the expense of honest players!

SocialPanda

As I said before, you really don´t need to have Houdini 3 in your smartphone, you can be running a remote control program, and be running Houdini 3 in your home computer.

Or you would have this:

http://www.chessbase.com/Home/TabId/211/PostId/4010356/chessbase-for-android-start-your-engines-040713.aspx

(though this appeared later)

PhythonMython
socialista wrote:

As I said before, you really don´t need to have Houdini 3 in your smartphone, you can be running a remote control program, and be running Houdini 3 in your home computer.

Or you would have this:

http://www.chessbase.com/Home/TabId/211/PostId/4010356/chessbase-for-android-start-your-engines-040713.aspx

(though this appeared later)