Borislav Ivanov strikes again!

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Avatar of Spiritbro77

What's strange is no one can figure out how he's cheating if he really is... from what I've read they have checked him over and over. His person, the board, the pieces, etc. etc. etc. So far no one has found a thing to indicate he is cheating except his increased ability. So if he is cheating, he may not be the smartest chess player, but he's hella smart when it comes to cheating ability... Unless he had an electronic device implanted in his brain, it's hard to see how he is pulling this off. A smart drug? A memory drug so he can memorize Houdini lines? Or just a lot of prep work with Houdini?

Avatar of waffllemaster
Spiritbro77 wrote:

What's strange is no one can figure out how he's cheating if he really is... from what I've read they have checked him over and over. His person, the board, the pieces, etc. etc. etc. So far no one has found a thing to indicate he is cheating except his increased ability. So if he is cheating, he may not be the smartest chess player, but he's hella smart when it comes to cheating ability... Unless he had an electronic device implanted in his brain, it's hard to see how he is pulling this off. A smart drug? A memory drug so he can memorize Houdini lines? Or just a lot of prep work with Houdini?

Yeah, really brilliant to not bring your device to the search they announce to you in advance, be searched, they discover nothing, then lose your next game badly because you can't cheat.  /sarcasm

Avatar of Pre_VizsIa

Well since Ivanov forfeited it seems reasonable to believe that GM Diugy is telling the truth... why forfeit when you could win $5000 and progress towards GM norms by taking off your shoes?

Avatar of RubiksRevenge

Ivanov was only too happy to half strip himself back in Zader by removing jacket and shirt and emptying his pockets etc, this is classic behavior of a guilty person knowing he won't be found out as all the cheating method was in his shoes. He had prepared for the day that he was asked to remove shoes and had that smelly sock excuse ready. What I find funny is that he  wrote on his scoresheet that his opponent Dlugy was a Clown and Ivanov is the one with the oversized shoes.

Avatar of Lou-for-you

Can somebody export those devices to europe? I have the market cornered here. By the way is nike interested. They are in to sports and boosting performance.

Avatar of jaaas
krushnoi wrote:

I think the death of tournament chess will begin at the lower levels where it's nearly impossible to police a lot of players.

This is becoming a downward spiral, as more and more players (mostly online, but in OTB tournament play as well) are compelled to cheat by the reasoning "many if not most of my opponents are likely to cheat, so I have to cheat as well to make sure I stand a chance".

It indeed looks like online and tournament OTB chess can only survive for another while (until assistance is possible in realtime and cannot be reasonably detected at all anymore) in the form of bullet and blitz respectively, and any longer time controls will have to be assumed to be centaur chess.

Avatar of waffllemaster
krushnoi wrote:

In class tournaments OTB how can anybody catch a player with a small device on them from going to the restroom and quicky running up the game score at a critical position maybe two times a game. If the players are about the same rating the cheater would have a big advantage knowing what the computer says. I think the death of tournament chess will begin at the lower levels where it's nearly impossible to police a lot of players.

Cheating is nothing new though.  Even before electronics you could have your stronger friend look at your game, then you walk out of the playing hall and get suggestions.

There was one story of a kid going to the skittles room (where people play blitz for fun) and setting up his game position and asked (and received) advice from multiple players who of course didn't know it was an ongoing game.

Cheating with a hand held device is comparatively easier to prevent.

Avatar of waffllemaster
jaaas wrote:
krushnoi wrote:

I think the death of tournament chess will begin at the lower levels where it's nearly impossible to police a lot of players.

This is becoming a downward spiral, as more and more players (mostly online, but in OTB tournament play as well) are compelled to cheat by the reasoning "many if not most of my opponents are likely to cheat, so I have to cheat as well to make sure I stand a chance".

It indeed looks like online and tournament OTB chess can only survive for another while (until assistance is possible in realtime and cannot be reasonably detected at all anymore) in the form of bullet and blitz respectively, and any longer time controls will have to be assumed to be centaur chess.

People who use speed games as an excuse to avoid cheating are fooling themselves.  If someone wants to cheat in a 3, 2, or even 1 minute game it's definitely possible.

In fact in games as slow as 2 minutes you don't even need a special set up, just plain make moves on the engine board then copy them yourself in the game.

As for the death of OTB chess in reference to Ivanov that sounds a lot like the sky is falling.  Cheating has always been possible.  The least likely type of cheating to deal a killing blow, IMO, would be people visiting the bathroom all the time... especially on their move, which no one does anyway.

The highly technical methods, I would think, would almost entirely be in tournaments with a large prizes... the tournaments where you'd expect things like metal detectors or searches of suspicious players.  That may be the biggest change, the searches / metal detectors at tourneys with big prizes.

Avatar of waffllemaster
Savage wrote:

I'd like to see all tournaments adopt a rapid play format - say all moves in 30 minutes - where getting up from the board is forbidden.

Tournaments with the 60 minute games are so fast I won't play them.

30 minute "tournament" games is the same as killing chess... and wouldn't prevent cheating anyway heh.

Avatar of waffllemaster
Savage wrote:

That's OK, plenty of others will. And far from killing chess, it's the only chance of popularizing it to any degree.

That's true, others would be able to enjoy it.  Hopefully more than that year's bus load of kids whose parents though chess would be a good summer activity.

I couldn't care less how popular chess is.  Pros can make a living.  World champions are millionaires.  That's well beyond adequate IMO.

Avatar of waffllemaster
Savage wrote:

One post ago you said 30 min tournaments would kill chess. Now you've said you don't care how popular chess is. Make up your mind.

As you pointed out it would only kill chess as I know and enjoy it.  When what I call the serious players quit, others will fill their places... mostly school aged children I think but that doesn't really matter.

As for my 2nd paragraph by that I mean I don't see a need for it to increase in popularity when I take the benefit of increased popularity as growing / enhancing the professional scene.

Avatar of BMeck

Chess is meant to be long. It is supposed to make you think and calculate deeply. Bullet and blitz, i.e. "fast" chess, is not true chess to me. Cheating is something that will never end and we, as players, just have to live with it.

Avatar of x-5058622868
BMeck wrote:

Chess is meant to be long. It is supposed to make you think and calculate deeply. Bullet and blitz, i.e. "fast" chess, is not true chess to me. Cheating is something that will never end and we, as players, just have to stamp it out every time it rears its ugly head.

Fixed.

Avatar of chiaroscuro62

eh...people cheat all the time on chess.com.  It's really easy to tell that you are playing a computer (which is, of course, the odd part about this controversy - I can tell when I am playing a computer easily but people are questioning whether GM's can tell whether they are playing a computer? Huh?).  Chess.com tries hard to stamp it out with varying results.  For example, chess.com says that if they think you are cheating they will kick you out but won't tell us how they know.  If I buy a book from say chess.com member NM Heisman, he has checked all the analysis in that book with whatever engine he likes.  If I play that analysis will chess.com ban me and put me on the wall of shame? 

I think we just live with it and if someone wants to beat me with Houdini I don't care.  Not like I haven't lost 10,000 chess games fairly.

Avatar of x-5058622868

Chess.com won't tell us how they know because that makes it easier for cheaters to try and work a way around it. It's similar to how people want to know how Ivanov does it. I suspect some want to copy the method to sneak past current security measures.

Avatar of SocialPanda
Savage wrote:

And you have to admit that cheating becomes a hell of a lot harder in rapid chess, especially OTB.

The "Paz de Ziganda" (Spain) Tournament that Ivanov "won" when he was an untitled 2300 was at 25 min per game.

Avatar of chiaroscuro62
latics10 wrote:

How can you cheat at chess ... ?

Engine...

Avatar of WalangAlam

That is the question....How?

Avatar of waffllemaster
[COMMENT DELETED]
Avatar of BMeck
Savage wrote:

BMeck wrote:

"Chess is meant to be long."

 

Chess isn't "meant" to be anything. What you mean is that you personally happen to like long chess. Fine, but a lot of people like fast chess. Why is the ability to calculate quickly under time pressure inherently less valuable than the ability to calculate deeply for a long time? Like it or not, the vast majority of younger players play fast chess. The classical chess dogmatists are pissing into the wind here. And you have to admit that cheating becomes a hell of a lot harder in rapid chess, especially OTB.

What I mean by "it is meant to be long" is that chess is a thinking mans game. It is hard to think and calculate deeply when you have 10 minutes for an entire game. Young people (I am only 18 by the way) enjoy fast chess because it gives faster results. This day and age the faster the better unless you are in the bedroom... so of course young people will like fast chess. I am not talking down to fast chess players, I am simply saying that "fast" chess and "slow" chess are two completely different games.