Calculating without visualization.

I noticed that you are able to calculate far into lines without imagining or seeing the pieces move in the board. All you need to have is a good memory and a basic understanding of math.

For example,

I know if I got D4 my opponent might go D5 which stops the advancement of my pawn, I know that if i put my bishop on f4 It targets a pawn on that aisle it controls. I know that if I move my knight 3 moves later to threaten that pawn, that pawn can move 1 square forward or the queen might move to a better square to defend it. 

Small line, no visualization needed. I noticed you could do this, and it saves time at the same time you need to remember your position as a verbal sort of way and not an image sort of way.

You also need to visualize and calculate on a verbal sort of way, very very similar to math. In fact most of it, its just math.

I was wondering who else calculates this way and if you are able to.

I noticed grandmasters are able to do this and in fact i think it might be one of the abilities that differentiate top grand masters to a theoretical grand master.

Strong players have a deep understanding of the position's dynamics, such as pawn structures, piece coordination and key squares. This understanding helps them make strategic decisions without needing to visualize every detail.

Exactly why I said calculating verbally it's more helpful in the long run then trying to brute force a move visually. When you use verbal cues to determine the best move instead of having to see the cause/effect of a move. For example, When playing a move like f4 during the italian, the perception is to push forward, but if you calculate it verbally pushing forward makes really no sense but other than to open the file and place your queen in front of the rook. When you see the move, you really don't see it tho. Another problem there is with visualization is the following problem which is coming up with a follow up. When you are coming with a follow up with visualization if you do not have an understanding of chess and you do not determine the position verbally you will spend a decade coming up with a follow up move.

What I noticed while playing against the bot is, it tends to be a minute inaccuracy in the position that allows for a slight advantage that finally leads to zugzwang and every move you make will be almost always a moving draw it starts 0.0 0.1 0.2 0.4 0.5 0.9 until boom finally a pawn. Try to do that with visualization is impossible. You will never even know where to begin, but if you do it verbally. Take the open file, whats the follow up? can i attack this piece? whats that follow up? can he attack back? whats his follow up? Am I better after this? does he have play left?

You do not need to brute force every move visually and you shouldn't need to even visualize but 1 -2 times until during very specific puzzle like situations. Key moments, critical moves.

From 1500 elo under you see random attrackive moves that look dangerous but lead no where because we were taught from utube videos that visualization its one of the most important tools in chess, so the moves tend to look menancing and tend to be losing moves.

When that doesn't work those 1500's learn theory, become theoretical andies but when they encounter a non theoritical position they lose because they don't know what to do on a 0.4 positions and how to take advantage,

Why because they are 1500 at heart and all they ever learned was to visualize and to get ahead they studied for hours a line that was created hundreds of years ago.

0 common sense, 0 reasoning, 0 calculations, 110 imagination and visualization.

I wish I understood what the opening post means. I understand none of it. How do you calculate without visualizing? How do you "know" those stuff that you claim to know? What does any of this have to do with math? I've got nothing.

The first post in this thread that makes some sense

I know it sounds crazy, but to reason you have to be vocal, you have to talk things out, you have to think. You cannot think visually you cannot think with pictures. The way I learned, and the way I was taught to learn was to look ahead, look as far ahead as possible, and best move and furthest move wins. Bobby Fischer said on an interview he rarely saw past move 2/3. <- That's bobby. That means he talked to himself and he reasoned to himself to find the best move.

I know it sounds like I'm having a stroke but you don't calculate either verbally or visually anyways, I have no idea what part of the brain does that but you dont use neither. The more I explain myself the crazier ill sound.

You might sound a little crazy, it depends haha.

Are you suggesting nobody can visualise the chess board in their heads or just that they can’t visualise it in their heads and then move the pieces around? I think a lot of people can do the first part but it varies a lot on the second part (especially with accuracy).

I can hardly even do the first part let alone the second part. I can get flashes of the board, but it is mostly shrouded in fog. If you can’t see anything in your head then you probably have Aphantasia.

That being said there are strong players that don’t/ can’t picture the board in their heads. There is one IM that comes to mind as he made a video about it but I would have to do a little searching to find it.

I like the others would be curious to know more about what you mean when talking about the “math” behind your calculation.

The math I was talking about is basic math, like this pawn is protected 4 times the other opponent is attacking it 5 times. Verbally tho, instead of having to imagine takes takes takes takes,

Maybe what the OP is saying is he is moving pieces based on logical reasoning. He might not need visualzation but moving pieces blindly may create complications especially when playing against strong players. Yes, chess is math, but the math behind it is very complicated that is why we can't rely just on logical reasoning but also of visualization of piece movements.

This is simply bad. Some beginners think this way, and they should stop. It leads to loss of material. If your pawn is attacked 2 times by 2 minor pieces, and defended 2 times by king and queen - it is not protected.

My opinion is that what you are describing is exactly the opposite. I think that when you visualize too much you can get to a state of mind that you see non existent moves and non existing positions.

Yeah but YOU clearly don't need to calculate when you play lmao. I mean I think it's pretty clear what's going on with your acc lmao