PatzerLars wrote:
I wonder, If any woman can become a grandma. (Ok, bad pun)
yes i agree you probably have point rofl.
Can Anyone Become Grandmaster?
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texasyankee wrote:
This is a false analogy. There are thousands more GM's than there are NBA (450-500 a year), NFL (about 2000 a year) or MLB (750-900 a year) players.
A better comparison is to scratch golfers (0 handicap). Talent is less important in both chess and golf than hardwork and effort are... [BLAH BLAH...]
This is dopey. There aren't "thousands more GMs" since there aren't thousands of GMs... there are less than two thousand GMs and it's an international life title -- so comparison to active NBA (or football or whatever) players is so inapt it's meaningless.
Being a GM is like being a scratch golfer? That's clueless. Golf is played against the COURSE! You can be a scratch golfer without having won a single tournament anywhere, ever. The GM title is earned by winning in international competition, against other GMs!
Mar 16, 2013
0
#44
Yeah. See my post #30 for some numbers. The comparison to NBA players is indeed a false analogy. There are fewer grandmasters than NBA players!
JG27Pyth wrote:
texasyankee wrote:
This is a false analogy. There are thousands more GM's than there are NBA (450-500 a year), NFL (about 2000 a year) or MLB (750-900 a year) players.
A better comparison is to scratch golfers (0 handicap). Talent is less important in both chess and golf than hardwork and effort are... [BLAH BLAH...]
This is dopey. There aren't "thousands more GMs" since there aren't thousands of GMs... there are less than two thousand GMs and it's an international life title -- so comparison to active NBA (or football or whatever) players is so inapt it's meaningless.
Being a GM is like being a scratch golfer? That's clueless. Golf is played against the COURSE! You can be a scratch golfer without having won a single tournament anywhere, ever. The GM title is earned by winning in international competition, against other GMs!
against international competition but what does it mean?? maybe one GM is delusional and wanted so much more and now is happy with just a paychek, while other GMs who fight for the fun and the honor.
Mar 16, 2013
0
#46
SmyslovFan wrote:
Yeah. See my post #30 for some numbers. The comparison to NBA players is indeed a false analogy. There are fewer grandmasters than NBA players!
Ok, but it was pretty cool analogy though it wasn't true :)
TetsuoShima wrote:
JG27Pyth wrote:
texasyankee wrote:
This is a false analogy. There are thousands more GM's than there are NBA (450-500 a year), NFL (about 2000 a year) or MLB (750-900 a year) players.
A better comparison is to scratch golfers (0 handicap). Talent is less important in both chess and golf than hardwork and effort are... [BLAH BLAH...]
This is dopey. There aren't "thousands more GMs" since there aren't thousands of GMs... there are less than two thousand GMs and it's an international life title -- so comparison to active NBA (or football or whatever) players is so inapt it's meaningless.
Being a GM is like being a scratch golfer? That's clueless. Golf is played against the COURSE! You can be a scratch golfer without having won a single tournament anywhere, ever. The GM title is earned by winning in international competition, against other GMs!
against international competition but what does it mean?? maybe one GM is delusional and wanted so much more and now is happy with just a paychek, while other GMs who fight for the fun and the honor.
Yeah, uh, ya got me there... those hordes of delusional and jaded GMs cheapening the title -- I forgot about that.
Mar 16, 2013
0
#48
TetsuoShima wrote:
Sred wrote:
This is very strange. It's pretty clear that not anyone can be an NBA player or that not anyone can reach an olympic final. But when it comes to chess, many people apparently think that things are different, for whatever reason.
how can you compare that, you know the competition is greater in nba. Its not only more fame, its also more money. And most people in the world are striving for money and fame, so probably way way eay more people compete for it. I mean if you are GM, you dont talk on Tv, you dont have hordes of women and piles of cash you know. You know probably for 99,95 % people would be interested anyway in NBA even if they arent Basketball afficionados to beginn with.
Yes you could see it the other way around too, chess is purely passion so GM´s are already the hardcore players, but hey i dont know. I think its possible, why shouldnt it be??
Unless i see someone with my own eyes, who really has the passion for chess and really sacrifices a lot for it and doesnt become GM. Then i believe its not possible. Remember Bobby Fischer everything was second place to becoming world champion, women and everything.
If i see a person with that determination and he really put everything he had into becoming a GM and he failed, then i will believe otherwise.
I really doubt that you will change your beliefs based on facts.
But just in case you're earnest, take a look at every single IM. If you want a very specific example, take a look at that player who publicly stated his goal was to become a GM. He barely broke 2000. He chronicled his attempts here:
JG27Pyth wrote:
TetsuoShima wrote:
JG27Pyth wrote:
texasyankee wrote:
This is a false analogy. There are thousands more GM's than there are NBA (450-500 a year), NFL (about 2000 a year) or MLB (750-900 a year) players.
A better comparison is to scratch golfers (0 handicap). Talent is less important in both chess and golf than hardwork and effort are... [BLAH BLAH...]
This is dopey. There aren't "thousands more GMs" since there aren't thousands of GMs... there are less than two thousand GMs and it's an international life title -- so comparison to active NBA (or football or whatever) players is so inapt it's meaningless.
Being a GM is like being a scratch golfer? That's clueless. Golf is played against the COURSE! You can be a scratch golfer without having won a single tournament anywhere, ever. The GM title is earned by winning in international competition, against other GMs!
against international competition but what does it mean?? maybe one GM is delusional and wanted so much more and now is happy with just a paychek, while other GMs who fight for the fun and the honor.
Yeah, uh, ya got me there... those hordes of delusional and jaded GMs cheapening the title -- I forgot about that.
right there arent drunk GM´s that make senseless moves in real tournament games. Anyway i just saw one 1 but there are probably way more, not to mention all the GM´s included in the Crisan case, i forgot how it was exactly, but didnt he need GMs to get the title???
SmyslovFan wrote:
TetsuoShima wrote:
Sred wrote:
This is very strange. It's pretty clear that not anyone can be an NBA player or that not anyone can reach an olympic final. But when it comes to chess, many people apparently think that things are different, for whatever reason.
how can you compare that, you know the competition is greater in nba. Its not only more fame, its also more money. And most people in the world are striving for money and fame, so probably way way eay more people compete for it. I mean if you are GM, you dont talk on Tv, you dont have hordes of women and piles of cash you know. You know probably for 99,95 % people would be interested anyway in NBA even if they arent Basketball afficionados to beginn with.
Yes you could see it the other way around too, chess is purely passion so GM´s are already the hardcore players, but hey i dont know. I think its possible, why shouldnt it be??
Unless i see someone with my own eyes, who really has the passion for chess and really sacrifices a lot for it and doesnt become GM. Then i believe its not possible. Remember Bobby Fischer everything was second place to becoming world champion, women and everything.
If i see a person with that determination and he really put everything he had into becoming a GM and he failed, then i will believe otherwise.
I really doubt that you will change your beliefs based on facts.
But just in case you're earnest, take a look at every single IM. If you want a very specific example, take a look at that player who publicly stated his goal was to become a GM. He barely broke 2000. He chronicled his attempts here:
Smyslov thank you that ruined my day, im so jealous i wish i learned chinese and on top even have 2000 chess rating and he is still a kid.
Mar 16, 2013
0
#51
JG27Pyth wrote:
The GM title is earned by winning in international competition, against other GMs!
No, this is illogical. If this was true then there would never ever have been GMs. How would you be able to gain the GM title if there were no GMs to play against 
The GM title is an award. Yes there are certain demands that must be met, but it is still an award. In fact sometimes chess players who didn't win two GM norms and reach 2500 in time can be awarded the GM title under certain conditions. One is to win a Women's, Junior's, or Senior World Championship. This will award you the GM title.
One such case is Jens Kristiansen an IM who never broke 2500 but he did win the Senior WC and was awarded the GM title.
Mar 16, 2013
0
#53
SmyslovFan wrote:
TetsuoShima wrote:
Sred wrote:
This is very strange. It's pretty clear that not anyone can be an NBA player or that not anyone can reach an olympic final. But when it comes to chess, many people apparently think that things are different, for whatever reason.
how can you compare that, you know the competition is greater in nba. Its not only more fame, its also more money. And most people in the world are striving for money and fame, so probably way way eay more people compete for it. I mean if you are GM, you dont talk on Tv, you dont have hordes of women and piles of cash you know. You know probably for 99,95 % people would be interested anyway in NBA even if they arent Basketball afficionados to beginn with.
Yes you could see it the other way around too, chess is purely passion so GM´s are already the hardcore players, but hey i dont know. I think its possible, why shouldnt it be??
Unless i see someone with my own eyes, who really has the passion for chess and really sacrifices a lot for it and doesnt become GM. Then i believe its not possible. Remember Bobby Fischer everything was second place to becoming world champion, women and everything.
If i see a person with that determination and he really put everything he had into becoming a GM and he failed, then i will believe otherwise.
I really doubt that you will change your beliefs based on facts.
But just in case you're earnest, take a look at every single IM. If you want a very specific example, take a look at that player who publicly stated his goal was to become a GM. He barely broke 2000. He chronicled his attempts here:
Yeah that sure is a nice example *cough*
He started his blog year 2010 with the goal to attempt to reach the GM title. 2 years later he stopped the blog because he went to China to study Mandarin for a year. According to himself he did manage to reach expert level.
In my opinion it doesn't disprove that anybody can become a GM. First of all it would take longer time than 2 years for most people. He seems to have other hobbies as well, and he is studying. So it doesn't look to me like he is going all out on the GM idea.
I think his goal was 10 hours per week to study chess in. Hmmm yeah that probably isn't enough.
To me it confirms that you have to train correctly and you should rather than not go all in. Leave one of these two out and you'll probably not succeed.
Yeah it is a cop out for me.. I can always claim that he didn't train correctly etc while others will say "See, he did everything he could and didn't make it". I don't think he did all he could. 10 hours per week lol Also if you look at the training it is clear that a competent coach would have made a great difference.
Just my opinion xD
sluck72 wrote:
JG27Pyth wrote:
The GM title is earned by winning in international competition, against other GMs!
No, this is illogical. If this was true then there would never ever have been GMs. How would you be able to gain the GM title if there were no GMs to play against
The GM title is an award. Yes there are certain demands that must be met, but it is still an award. In fact sometimes chess players who didn't win two GM norms and reach 2500 in time can be awarded the GM title under certain conditions. One is to win a Women's, Junior's, or Senior World Championship. This will award you the GM title.
One such case is Jens Kristiansen an IM who never broke 2500 but he did win the Senior WC and was awarded the GM title.
sluck... oh sluck... no I didn't give a comprehensive exposition on the Grandmaster concept, which I suppose would need also to include Grandmaster Flash and some don't-let-the-mellow-fool-you Shaolin Temple Monks.
The FIDE Grandmaster title isn't (at the moment) arbitrary -- there are standards, the bar is high, and one does have to win games against the highest caliber of opponent.
GM Kristiansen was awarded his title after winning the senior world championship (and there were plenty of GMs in the mix).
Or for example if you get invited to a world championship candidates match and if you win a lot of games you, yes you, would be a GM.
But how does any of this interfere or bear at all on my comment that a GM title is earned _in competition_ -- whereas the "scratch" golfer designation is earned by playing what is effectively and often literally solitaire?
Tell 9th Dan Taekwando Grandmaster Son his title is just an award, go on, tell him, and then pulls the medals from his neck go on I dare ya...
JG whats the name of the taekwondo master on the pic
i defeated Chuck Norris once.
Sunofthemorninglight wrote:
i defeated Chuck Norris once.
quite embaressing for me, he didnt even do Karate but Taekwondo and on top he didnt even do full contact championship. Man i will never trust second hand sources again.
i was sleeping at the time, so i guess you could say that kco!
Agreed, Paul. The less someone knows of something, the easier they think it is to do.
irony that except for chess those are most often even the guys who have success.