I agree lou...but it shpuld b stated before play if database is being used....this is all news to me
cheat engines...c.c says it ok?
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Oct 12, 2013
0
#43
frankyyy27 wrote:
Scott...ive never studied openings and I dont have a database I just want a straight honest game of chess....why is that not possible
Check out the goup "Circle of Trust OTB" they are players that dont want to use any of the aids available on here.
lol.....chess cafe...u dont live in england then.....no such thing
Oct 12, 2013
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#45
There are clubs in most towns in england and plenty of places where people play chess.
Agreed. I've been living in liverpool for 4 months this year, and i can confirm that england is something of a chess paradise when compared to Italy. There are loads of very active chess clubs.
big citys maybe..:)
im off...1 last comment on main subjet...although I can see the use of database at a certain high level..for it to b used at all levels its just a fancy name for a cheat engine.....its use should b minimised...since when was the opening not important...? Surley some peopls r more indepth than others?and surley it should be polite to inform people ur using it...id guess most online players have never heard of it.....:) ta da
i agree...using a database is using a third party to help you win...your not winning on your own merits.
Cheating is never good.
Imagine you are on a world stage as a World Grand Master about to win millions of dollars if you can Beat Houdini3 in this last chess match.
All or nothing.
About to be rich for life, all you have to do is make 2 moves to force mate.
And you're like, Oh whoa, No wait, I better use "Cheat engine here"
Like seriously even if you won that match, would you feel like you really won it?
I wouldn't.
Only rely on yourself! When on the chessboard that is.
In Life You Need Jesus Christ to get to heaven.
But that's my belief.
Anyways, To keep it simple.
Never cheat. Always ask yourself. Never things outside your own body. (On the chess board). Pull that STRENGHT OUT OF YOU! - Nothing else. (On the chess board).
frankyyy27 wrote:
lol...so im basically beatenn within 5 mvs by anyone using a database?.....so im underated
Better to be under-rated in chess and be surprised when you whoop.
Rather then to be over-rated in chess and be surprised when you lose.
Oct 12, 2013
0
#52
king_nothing1 wrote:
Historically, it is in the spirit of correspondence chess to use databases and opening explorer but there is a need to define correspondence chess(CC) in today's context.
The basic sprit of chess is to use your own mind. In earlier times, such things ( opening books and databases)were allowed cause at that time nature and availability of such resources were very different. Today these are readily available on computers. You just need to put a position on your database and out of millions of games, it will show you all the games in which such position existed and you can see how titled players reacted to those situation it can go on.
Now what are the implications of using these resources:
1. If you use database, generally you don't have to use ur mind upto some 25 moves. Given both you and ur opponent have average chess understanding. (decide yourself how big a help is this and if this is in the spirit of chess).
2. Allowing opening explorer and database use means 'forget using gambit openings and sharp tactical openings such as Ponziani. Ponziani is a very good opening against somebody who doesn't know it but if your opponent has access to explorer and database excess and you use ponziani, good luck trying to get a result out of it)
3. Using database means opening database on your chess GUI and if one does it, 99.99 % he would have a look on position evaluation if not the next move.
In this forum, many ppl are saying 'it is in the spirit of CC and it is within the rules. In my humble opinion, it is the right thing to debate the rationale behind rules rather than stating what is in the rules or using the classic 'love it or leave it' line. I don't know what is in the spirit of CC but I know the basic spirit of chess is to use your mind rather than using database.
Thank you
Really? You want to debate, but your first point is an old misconception that was dismissed two pages back. How about you read the previous posts and engage them with credible argument. Your notion about how one uses databases is flat wrong. Grossly mistaken. Rooted in ignorance.
You are not debating when you assert a view that was anticipated and rejected in a previous post.
I use databases. When I do, I work harder and think more than in the games when I do not use them. That's a simple fact rooted in the experience of more than a thousand correspondence games on two dozen web sites, through email, and going back to the days of postcards. That's also a fact that I've thoroughly documented. For instance, http://chessskill.blogspot.com/2011/10/reading-annotations.html.
If you want to debate, I'm game. But you have a considerable amount of homework to do first. Otherwise, we are quarreling: (my) knowledge vs. (your) ignorance.
You want to say that I'm not using my brain when I use databases. Provide evidence that refutes my documentation of how I am using it.
Oct 12, 2013
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#53
richie_and_oprah wrote:
uisng your brain with a database to play chess is not the same challenge as using your brain without a database to play chess
Absolutely correct. It is a much more formidable challenge to employ databases effectively than merely to play from memory. It takes longer. It is more work. It requires deeper application of positional knowledge, as well as research skills.
(BTW, you are quoted at http://chessskill.blogspot.com/2011/03/databases-and-their-discontents_28.html)
at last some cpmmon sense.....my point was I geel cheated by pepple using a tool)legal pr npt) to defeat me....if its not an advantage why would it be used...u delusional users can argue till the cows come home...but I bet if u asked any sane non chess plauer to comment on this....guess what there answer would be?
as a training tool it has its uses but so do computer programmes...i just geel that it should cpme under a training catergory and not the lets play...since when did the opening become defunct?...i spent over a year playing kings pawn sacrifice..and its no use v anyone using
yep...user...like using a drug...all id like to see is two sections under online chess...using a mn d not using...
Ziryab wrote:
richie_and_oprah wrote:
uisng your brain with a database to play chess is not the same challenge as using your brain without a database to play chess
Absolutely correct. It is a much more formidable challenge to employ databases effectively than merely to play from memory. It takes longer. It is more work. It requires deeper application of positional knowledge, as well as research skills.
(BTW, you are quoted at http://chessskill.blogspot.com/2011/03/databases-and-their-discontents_28.html)
are u kidding me? any moron can use a database
Oct 13, 2013
0
#58
(I don't use databases either or chess engines, but i do agree it's not cheating to use opening explorer or an database because it's much like consulting an MCO-y'know, a "book"-they have all the moves, but if you don't really know the strategies/ideas or never even commited ti studying opening theory beforehand...geez, those resources are about as useful as an appendix.)
Ziryab wrote:
Really? You want to debate, but your first point is an old misconception that was dismissed two pages back. How about you read the previous posts and engage them with credible argument. Your notion about how one uses databases is flat wrong. Grossly mistaken. Rooted in ignorance.
You are not debating when you assert a view that was anticipated and rejected in a previous post.
I use databases. When I do, I work harder and think more than in the games when I do not use them. That's a simple fact rooted in the experience of more than a thousand correspondence games on two dozen web sites, through email, and going back to the days of postcards. That's also a fact that I've thoroughly documented. For instance, http://chessskill.blogspot.com/2011/10/reading-annotations.html.
If you want to debate, I'm game. But you have a considerable amount of homework to do first. Otherwise, we are quarreling: (my) knowledge vs. (your) ignorance.
You want to say that I'm not using my brain when I use databases. Provide evidence that refutes my documentation of how I am using it.
Yeah lets debate. I promise you that I will have an open mind ( though I am worried my brain may fall).... after reading your blog I can say that you strengthen my view. My points:
1. You said that one needs brain to select the right move out from database moves, yes but database significantly narrows your options right? In any given situation, masters game give you 2-5 options and if you compare this with the number of options a 1300 rated player has for that similar position, they will be in the range of 4- more than 10. In any case there is a significant difference between solely using your brain and using your brain after going through database.
2. You wrote in your blog that you not only looked at possible net move but also you thoroughly examined the games (means you also looked into your opponent's possible responses right? )
3. you mentioned that using database for turn based chess is a good training tool for OTB matches.... well I have a better suggestion, look into Houdini's suggested moves as well and go through all the lines it suggests and then make your move. You will learn better and guess what this too requires using your brain.
I had gone through two pages of this thread and basic theme I got from pro database players is that using database is a time standing tradition for turn based chess and it is within the rules ( rather than why it is okay). I agree that it is a tradition in turn based chess and people are within their rights to use that, it is just that I don't agree with this and don't use data base when game is on. I use help when games is finished and it serves me better.
PS...I really enjoyed going through your notation and considering adopting your style in future. :)
correct....ive no database and limited knoledge of openings...id say that leaves me dead in the water....i enjoy wildly different games..better pplayers sould'nt be scared of this