cheater's using progs...
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Cheaters are going to cheat, so don't get too wrapped up in rating. Rating is just a number. You are same strength with 1300 rating as you are with 1600 rating. If you know how well you play, then rating can just be unimportant number that it is.
cheaters only cheat themselves...
see my blog on vacations...sheesh!!
Surely the challenge is to beat whoever is playing you at Chess be it Computer or otherwise. Don't worry about what mechanism the opponent is using, if you're good you'll win.
Joobson wrote:
Surely the challenge is to beat whoever is playing you at Chess be it Computer or otherwise. Don't worry about what mechanism the opponent is using, if you're good you'll win.
Utter nonsense! Even the best GMs cannot beat the top programs, like fritz 10 and rybka. I also tire of hearing "they are only cheating themselves"! No, they are cheating everyone they play , including themselves. If I wanted to play a comp I have several programs myself, I come here to play/meet people, not comps. I dont know about you though.
I personally think the games you play against the AI facility included on this website should be included in your games won/lost/drawn. Be it AI or Human every game advances your ability, it's nonsense to think otherwise. It's quite arrogant to have a doubt about the opponent only when you lose. Is this the case? I bet it is.
I think it is a real shame that people feel the need to cheat using software. These people are missing out on the genuine thrill associated with winning a game. A good game of chess is an experience whether you win, lose, or draw. To sully that experience with cheating is to cheat yourself as well as all the people you play.
Nov 12, 2007
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#8
I have my on method when it comes to trying to avoid playing potential cheaters, I mostly look for players who had played more that 30 games with lower than an 82%, I am not saying that players who do higher than 82% are cheaters, I am just saying that I rather play the ones who do lower than 82% just to be on the save side, this site is great, but nobody can stop people's temptations of using chess computers specialy as soon as they see that you are handling the game correctely, I had a guy tell me that i was using a computer just because my opening followed the book, I told him I was an above expert level player once rated above 2150 FIDE, it was clear to me that he didn't believe me and immediately started using his computer program against me, well there is nothing you can do when that happens, just lose that game and move on to the next one
They aren't "cheating themselves", they are getting exactly what they want, a high rating. They are cheating us by driving our ratings down. If I wanted to play Fritz I'd play it without having to use the guy as an intermediary. My rating is 1023 because I've stopped worrying about it, if I lose interest in a game or it seems fishy I just resign and move on. What do you get for being a chess.com master?
HotFlow wrote: I have the same sentiment Reb, I say I don't mind playing against comps with the hopes of discouraging it. I'm also fed up with putting lost games through an engine to see my mistakes only to find my opponents moves were a complete copy of what my chess engine do...
HotFlow, Reb and others: Why aren't suspected cheaters named in these threads? If you suspect an opponent has used a computer, why not post their name and the game and let the community decide if you claim has any merit?
I say this for two reasons: First, I find it hard to believe that there is actually a lot of cheating going on here. I've played a lot of games on this site and I've never suspected anyone of cheating. But more importantly, I think a little public exposure would deter any potential abusers.
Nov 12, 2007
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#11
"If you suspect an opponent has used a computer, why not post their name and the game and let the community decide if you claim has any merit?"
Slander might be a good reason not to do that.
I'd hate for this site to get to the point where everytime I made a good move I feared I'd be the next one the mob comes after.
I'd also hate to have a culture here that promotes running to the forum and crying every time you lose.
Cheating at chess.com is painfully simple. All cheaters need to do is get a very good chess program, set the difficulty to maximum, and then run it while playing you, and just transcribe YOUR moves as their moves in the chess program, and then use the moves the computer makes against you online.
In other words, every chess program ever is a cheat program as far as online play is concerned.
Besides, Batgirl is right!
Just post the names of suspected cheaters, and people can start boycotting them.
FanofAlba wrote:
To all,
I've played in tournaments and casually vs. "human" opponents to know when someone's using a "prog,"(computer chess program) i.e. Fritz, chessmaster etc..the dead giveaway is the unnatural, unthematic move in a given position. I have noticed this problem mainly with other chess sites, not so much this one. Any ideas on what can be done? Is there counter prog. detection available? What sucks most about this predicament is that one's rating is affected by it. Any comments welcomed! Thanks!
Loomis wrote:
I'd hate for this site to get to the point where everytime I made a good move I feared I'd be the next one the mob comes after.
I'd also hate to have a culture here that promotes running to the forum and crying every time you lose.
Loomis: I completely agree with you. And I think the level-headed players on this site would agree as well. I guess my point is that I don't think the many claims of cheating hold any weight. That's why I suggested that someone who really fears they'd been swindled should post the game in which they believe it occurred. Then the rest of the people on the site could look at the game and see if they agree. I'm willing to bet that they wont. As a result, the people who will end up being boycotted will be the people who always run to the forums to complain after losing, rather than those who are unjustly accused.
Well.......when you see non titled players with higher win percentages than titled players I guess there's nothing wrong with the picture? I really think it takes a certain level of player to even realize when someone is cheating by the comments I see here and on other servers.
batgirl wrote:
"If you suspect an opponent has used a computer, why not post their name and the game and let the community decide if you claim has any merit?"
Slander might be a good reason not to do that.
Batgirl, I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but of all the reasons not to cry foul libel is not one of them. If you ran across this guy in an OTB game, would you keep your mouth shut for fear of damaging his reputation? http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=4238
I don't see why its any different on a public forum like this. And please don't get me wrong, I'm not promoting the idea of posting mean and defaming accusations. I think a record of the game moves and a "I feel I got cheated, what does the community think?" post would serve the purpose and avoid any liability.
Nov 12, 2007
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#18
"That's why I suggested that someone who really fears they'd been swindled should post the game in which they believe it occurred. "
There's nothing wrong with posting a "suspected" game for public evaluation.
But that's not what you suggested, sic: "Why aren't suspected cheaters named in these threads?"
If you're playing OTB and suspect someone of cheating, I imagine you would talk with the TD or whomever is available and convey your suspicions, letting them investigate the matter discreetly. If you are suggesting emulating an OTB scenario, then you would message the game location to the administrators, not post a potentially innocent person's name. The false accusation of a misdeed, even later recinded, is generally as damaging as one that is true. The potential to accuse people publically can only lead to misuse and the practice is a form of McCarthyism.
There's no fight here, just apparently opposing opinions.
I guess it lays down to whetther you're optimistic or pessimeistic.
batgirl wrote:
"That's why I suggested that someone who really fears they'd been swindled should post the game in which they believe it occurred. "
There's nothing wrong with posting a "suspected" game for public evaluation.
But that's not what you suggested, sic: "Why aren't suspected cheaters named in these threads?"
If you're playing OTB and suspect someone of cheating, I imagine you would talk with the TD or whomever is available and convey your suspicions, letting them investigate the matter discreetly. If you are suggesting emulating an OTB scenario, then you would message the game location to the administrators, not post a potentially innocent person's name. The false accusation of a misdeed, even later recinded, is generally as damaging as one that is true. The potential to accuse people publically can only lead to misuse and the practice is a form of McCarthyism.
There's no fight here, just apparently opposing opinions.
I think I should have explained my point better in my first post. Posting a suspected game for public evaluation is all I'm recommending.
To all,
I've played in tournaments and casually vs. "human" opponents to know when someone's using a "prog,"(computer chess program) i.e. Fritz, chessmaster etc..the dead giveaway is the unnatural, unthematic move in a given position. I have noticed this problem mainly with other chess sites, not so much this one. Any ideas on what can be done? Is there counter prog. detection available? What sucks most about this predicament is that one's rating is affected by it. Any comments welcomed! Thanks!