I figured that might be a problem....
cheating on chess.com
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Kayton wrote:
What are you talking about? I cant even find a program that could make a move for me!
Anyway,
I do want that mandelshtam gets banned, or else he is already banned.
One thing: Why use computer moves? Just train on another program which DOES NOT give you moves for another game. I do that. I have got half a million(a quarter of a million) chess programs that train your chess mind.
By Kayton and I hope you agree with me!
Who says mandelshtam cheated? Just admission is sufficient proof of guilt?
Okay then, I admit that it was I who assassinated Abraham Lincoln. Now sue me :)
Incidentally, at the cost of the ancillary benefit of eliminating wait times for game analysis, I think a statistical sample would suffice in place of an exhaustive comparison....
I may be alone in thinking this, but it doesn't bother me. I don't care what my rating is, I only wish to improve. I try to learn something from every game, and if I can do that I'm one step ahead of the cheater. Whenever I loose badly it only inspires me to play better and study harder. Fiscer was the recipient of some serious cheating, but he still won.
Nov 25, 2008
0
#106
in the future, i think all i can expect is to hopefully not get cheated a lot of the time, and to simply always play my best :)
i also hope that mandelshtam does not leave the site.
mandelshtam wrote:
mandelshtam wrote:
not true, i play correspondence chess since more than 25 years. Using programs is NOT forbidden.
Because it is so, I actually stopped playing for quite some time (more than ten years) .
The question remains, it is forbidden on THIS site ?
Eric is staff. I'm pretty sure you can believe him that it is forbidden on this sight. Consult the computer between your ears. It's more fun that way. Seriously, I don't understand how a person could enjoy a chess game or take credit for a win if the even used an engine for one move.
Glad to see that Chess.com let this blog run. No site is without some bad eggs, so just play your game and don't worry about what the other people might do to win.
Nov 25, 2008
0
#109
I think chess.com is the most proactive site I have seen about getting rid of cheaters.
Just last week I suspected a person of cheating. I did 'Report Abuse' with my suspicions and reasons. I heard nothing back, but yesterday I noticed the person no longer has an account on chess.com.
For critical turn-based positions, I do use ChessBase 10, without its engine. This lets me analyze visually while recording my thoughts. I play out the position in "blitz" mode several times to get a feel for the shape of the game. Then I take a closer look at tactical opportunities, and round it out with thinking of all probable/critical alternatives. To wrap it up, I explicitly record my evaluations of end positions (+-, +=, =, etc.), and assign values to moves (??=losing, ?=definitely worse than best move, !=best choice, and !! as forced). That lets me easily navigate the move tree as I check it. I can easily spend many hours over the course of several days doing this, but the extra work can give me considerable insight into the position. I used that to good effect in my game with ilovegambits http://www.chess.com/echess/game.html?id=10202745 for my 29th move, which I found only after considerable research into alternatives that either did not successfully break his blockade or that opened my King position up. It seems to me that using ChessBase for turn-based games is completely within chess.com rules.
As for Live Chess, I tend to play 3 0 or faster because of bad experiences (especially on Yahoo chess) running into too many cheaters.
Nov 25, 2008
0
#110
normajeanyates wrote:
I admit that it was I who assassinated Abraham Lincoln. Now sue me :)
I admit that it was I who assassinated Abraham Lincoln. Now sue me :)
Sue you? I'd rather ask you about your diet, exercise, and medical program!
I just don't understand what someone gets out of cheating anyway, there is no money to be won and you get no real accommodations from it. I think, these ”cheaters" are pathetic and need to seek counseling. However I have ran across a few on this site and the only thing to do is never play them again.
There is another site who is far more harsh with cheaters than chess.com. I remember how upset was a member of that site because I reported him and he got (C)-ed, even if he was a full member and I had a one-week trial :) And he did not even play with me.
There are many cheaters here, and some of them are tolerated (or I guess chess.com bans only the idiots for which the computer agrees let's say with 90% of their moves). Catching a "clever" cheater is very hard, if not impossible.
Too sad ... almost it's not worth playing serious chess, there is always the danger of facing a cheater. It's not worth the effort. I could not play "serious" games online. Even if I played 15 mins (not only here) I was always doing something else in the meantime, like eating or reading my email.
Nov 25, 2008
0
#113
I use the analysis board and record the move tree in the "notes" section of the game.
Nice and tidy.
I admit, I cheat. I frequently use the computer Josh Waitzkin (6) with a rating of 1600 from Chessmaster...sorry.
mandelshtam wrote:
I think there is massive use of chess engines at all stages of the game on this site.
But I will follow the rule from now on.
I have to say that it is a very bad rule: you cannot prove BEYOND ANY DOUBT that someone used a program during the game.
That's why many players will never further follow the rule, and they will profit.
were is the PROFIT in geting a program to make your moves for you ??
you cant even say that you won the game cos the program did how sad can you get
Nov 25, 2008
0
#116
All of the people that I told about chess.com first say "what about other players cheating with computer analysis" etc. I try to convince them otherwise.
I offcourse gave this problem a thought, and came to a conclusion that if my opponent is cheating, then I am playing actually against a "grandmaster" sort of hybrid, and if I loose against that, who can blame me? On the other hand if someone asks computer what he/she should move next, the whole idea of this site is lost. I suggest that if you are not able to find the "best" move by your self, dont play chess at all. Do someting else, like throwing a frisbee or something.
If you argue that "other people most certainly are using computer analysis too", pls look in to a mirror and meet a paranoid person. Hello there! I am certain of it, that most of the players here dont ask computers any advice, as the most important idea is that here at chess.com people get a chance to play with other people. I allready have a chessmaster in my computer, so I dont need chess.com to play against a machine. I need it because I like playing against fellow humans and my wife doesnt want to play with me! :) I make mistakes, sometimes terrible blunders, and so does my opponents too. And thats why the game is so great; even if I loose a peace, I could still win the game because I know that my opponent might make as serious mistake. Without mistakes, there is no idea in the game, not in any game we humans play: Mistakes are a requirement on a good and entertaining chess game!
After all, without loosing, winning doesnt exist.
Nov 25, 2008
0
#117
valmenchetti wrote:
I don't think anyone should take the games played on chess.com that seriously. I think it is a way to learn and improve their game. Anyone that uses a search engine only cheats themselves. The turn based chess allows a lot of time for each move. The games should be played at a high level. There is no money involved so lets just enjoy chess.
i agree with you valmenchetti
achmatova wrote:
Dmytro, I fully agree with you.
And Gumptydumpty: Mandelshtam (which is me, I am back, with cleared rating, I will not use a computer anymore, may be I will not play at all, because so many others here use it!!!!) did not say himself that the raise of rating (from around 2100 to 2350 ) is due to Fritz 8. There are so many people here who have no rating higher than 1900 in USA, (meaning I would beat them 10 :0 in a face to face match, since i have Fide elo 2265) but their rating here is 2100 and higher. They make excellent, tactically justified moves, after short thought (less than one day) that a human FM hardly finds.
Ok, lets just finish this discussion.
Are you really mandelshtam? Oh well, another rule broken you'll get away with there (creating more than 1 account). But this time I hope you're allowed to stay as it's harming no one, I guess.
achmatova wrote:
it is legal because my first account doesnt exist anymore. i never harmed anyone, i just break the rules.
For the record if you check the rules you will actually see it is technically cheating. I disagree with the rules. If someone deletes their existing account they should be able to start again, without harming anyone. So eric, I'm just going to start a new account after deleting this one if you don't mind?
...
Agreed. It just doesn't make sense for the staff to publicly discuss their internal (proprietary) strategies for detecting cheats. What does make sense is for them to lightly monitor the conversation, and maybe on the off chance we collectively come up with an idea they find useful, they can incorporate it into their strategy.
Remember that they spend a lot of time thinking about this, and dealing with this, and we just type the first thing that comes to our mind... :-)
In the spirit of that then, here's the first thing that comes to my mind:
Instead of chess.com performing the game analysis after games and only at the request of the user, perhaps (assuming the CPU cycles are available) each move could be engine analyzed in real time (i.e. as soon as it is made) to be used internally to give each player a text move to engine move correlation score.
Those with high correlations would be highly likely to be cheaters and subject to further investigation. As an added bonus, doing this would also eliminate the wait time for game analysis as these would no longer have to be performed post game as an on-demand batch, but rather would be waiting and ready to be requested as soon as the game is complete.
sure..... we'd just need another 1,000 servers and we'd be set!