But computers would, no?
Chess is a dead draw by perfect play on both sides - agree or diasagree?
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Feb 23, 2014
0
#3
Wouldn't any competition where the two sides started equal and played perfectly end in a draw?
strong chess engines nowadays will be beaten by stronger chess engines in the future, and i believe its a fact..thus, even chess engines nowadays dont find the perfect moves yet from the very start of the game. deep blue was defeated by kasparov,.later kasparov was defeated by strong GM's who improve their play by the aid of chess engines,.and up to now, various chess engines are sprouting and are getting stronger and stronger. and i think it disapproves your claim that computers play perfectly.
Wouldn't any competition where the two sides started equal and played perfectly end in a draw?
No, for a few reasons. The biggest is that no turn based game starts perfectly equal as someone always moves first. You only start materially equal, someone always starts with the tempo. See checkers of a great example of a game where an equal starting position and perfect play always ends in a win for the starting player. However, unlike checkers, chess is still far from a solved game.
Agree. A draw.
I mostly agree with Wes Wilson above. I would add that some turn-based games have a disadvantage to going first. I think with chess it is generally thought that white has a small advantage. Also, Wes mentioned checkers which I think has been solved by mathematicians.
To Richie and Oprah I would say that I don't think that the fact that kings cannot attack each other completely nullifies the first turn advantage, but I would agree that it limits it quite a bit.
Overall, the fact that black must respond to white, assuming perfect moves, would I think continue throughout the game. Only if white makes an imperfect move, (not necessarily a weak move, just imperfect) would black get a chance to turn the tables and make white respond.
http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/true-or-false-chess-is-a-draw-with-best-play-from-both-sides
...went on for almost 100 pages.
Please clarify in your posts if you agree or disagree with the topic above. we are free to nullify or refute comments from others,but please,,for the purpose of statistics,,please do not post hanging comments..do clarify if you agree or disagree with the statement which was also fischer's and steinitz view of the game. thank you.
adypady02 wrote:
Agreed. But humans will NEVER play perfect.
Even with gene therapy that has the potential to greatly enhance our capabilities?
I always play perfect, perfectly bad that is.
JFK-Ramsey wrote:
Wouldn't any competition where the two sides started equal and played perfectly end in a draw?
But they are not equal - white must make a move. And since it is likely white is already in zugzwang, probably chess is a forced win for black.
With perfect play it will be a dead draw. With imperfect play it will be a colorful draw.
I feel that with perfect play from both sides, the game would either end in a draw or a win for black; never a win for white. At some point, white would most likely end up in zugzwang and then, at the least, find a way to draw the game, so I don't fully agree.
You said perfect play. If it is perfect play, then neither would really,well, lose. If it is perfect, they would not try to draw either, no? So both sides would try to win, and not draw because they play perfect. They couldn't and wouldn't draw. Black or white would win, but probably black because black gets to chose the opening.
well what if there is no time increments.
1 min timer. Its not like they can move in 0 seconds.
Nothing plays chess perfectly. Even engines. There are just too many variables.
Perfect play on both sides ends a draw with only kings left. A draw however maybe the result of a desperit player in poor postion trying to salvage a game.
Feb 23, 2014
0
#19
ktoredes wrote:
I think it's almost definite that the game is a draw theoretically. - bobby fischer
Wilhelm Steinitz, who in 1889 claimed chess is a draw with best play
As for me, i would agree with this claim. By playing perfectly the game would result to a draw and the issue of winning at a chess game can be determine depending on the player who first commited the worse mistake. If no one commits mistake, thus would result to a DRAW.
Agreed. Which is why The Dragon ALWAYS offers a draw after the first move. >:[
I think it's almost definite that the game is a draw theoretically. - bobby fischer
Wilhelm Steinitz, who in 1889 claimed chess is a draw with best play
As for me, i would agree with this claim. By playing perfectly the game would result to a draw and the issue of winning at a chess game can be determine depending on the player who first commited the worse mistake. If no one commits mistake, thus would result to a DRAW.