^^ dance denier too.
Chess is not an art
Sort:
Yeah dance isn't art, at least not where I see people dancing. It's a means to an obvious end.
Everything we do is a means to that end.
Dec 1, 2010
0
#46
theoreticalboy wrote:
The Red Shoes was visually lush, but the rest of it was barely digestible...
It was a great film! And you're not supposed to eat it, you watch it. 
trysts wrote:
theoreticalboy wrote:
The Red Shoes was visually lush, but the rest of it was barely digestible...
It was a great film! And you're not supposed to eat it, you watch it.
Oooh. You know, this explains my aversion to a lot of films, particularly the ones directed by fat, old, sweaty men.
ilikeflags wrote:
the baked ziti i'm cooking right now is a means to an end.
Your pasta is a means to your end? Mine goes straight to my love-handles.
Dec 1, 2010
0
#50
theoreticalboy wrote:
trysts wrote:
theoreticalboy wrote:
The Red Shoes was visually lush, but the rest of it was barely digestible...
It was a great film! And you're not supposed to eat it, you watch it.
Oooh. You know, this explains my aversion to a lot of films, particularly the ones directed by fat, old, sweaty men.
I could see you at a restaurant: "I ordered 'Schindler's List'. What's a schnitzel?"
If your brain could calculate 80 moves ahead with perfect accuracy, then yeah, you'd just choose the best move. But because of these limitations, there is a huge level of uncertainty in knowing what the future will be, and this allows for creative judgement, explosive moves, etc, and this definitely requires a certain level of creativity.
In fact, if I'm told a move from some master game and am asked to calculate it, I can do quite well, as I can see pretty far ahead and can logically slog through common tactics. But that's the thing. Finding those pretty moves and somehow having the ability to see chances (most notably, attacking chances) in a position that may look very solid, that's very hard, and I do think that lots of master games have that artistic feel.
So logic and everything is certainly a big part of it, but I think there is also enough room for people to show an artistic side as well. Perhaps this is more likely at very high levels, but I think in some way it applies to just about anyone. For a beginner for example, any sacrifice may have required them to really think outside the box.
ilikeflags wrote:
yum
You related to ilikeflabs?
Writch wrote:
All this talk of the creating/creative aspect making it art... and comparisons to music.
And yet no one has mentioned the obvious comparison out of the fact that it takes two participants - even if one is artificial - to carry out the act.
Thus chess, has very much qualities of Big Time Wrasslin', which is undeniably an art form.
I think chess is like a mixture of English (or first language) and maths. It has the logical parts and calculations of maths, but a few creative choices to express your feelings, such as writing a story or essay. So why don't people call essay writing a form of art?
They do. At least the degreed folk do.
guitarzan wrote:
I believe that chess can sometimes rise to the level of art, but that doesn't mean that is an art. Just as someone putting paint on a brush and applying it to a canvas doesn't automatically qualify it as art, neither does moving the chess pieces around an 8x8 board constitute an art form. BUT! Sometimes you come across a game where you realize someone is playing inspired chess! Check out the recent "Personal Mona Lisa" series of columns right here at chess.com by GM Gregory Serper for some great examples!
What do you think of this, Guitarzan? This is my kind of art!
A little more guitar? Here you go!
Well, I'd say that chess at high level has elements of art, but actually calling it an art is a bit over the top. It is a competitive game with predefined rules and doesn't allow as much freedom for creative expression as art does. It is creative to a certain extent, but not every creative activity can be characterized as art. The primary goal of a chess game is to win, if the winning line happens to be also aesthetically pleasing then it does. For every game of Morphy or Alekhine or Tal that was filled with sparkling combinations, there were probably two or three that were decided in a Rook and pawn endgame or some such.
I've never really cared what art is, but I think people are overlooking a very big distinction between music (and most "art") and chess. Chess is discrete whereas music is continuous.
I suppose music can be represented discretely (in an mp3 file) but it is not feasible that a human could memorize any high-fidelity discrete representation of a song. It is very possible to memorize and exactly reproduce a chess game however.
electricpawn wrote:
"What do you think of this, Guitarzan? This is my kind of art!"
Hmm, ... Johnny 'Guitar' Watson, huh? I first saw him on Soul Train over 30 years ago. What a hoot! I guess if a comic book were art, then Johnny 'Guitar' Watson would be art, too - the guy is a cartoon character! Honestly, the most art going on there is designing his suits! LOL!
The Red Shoes was visually lush, but the rest of it was barely digestible...