Chess is too much memorization. Let's fix it.

fabelhaft

”Am I really watching Carlsen play Grischuk? Or am I watching Stockfish play Stockfish? At the top level of chess it is the latter for the first 20 moves minimum”

I have followed many games between Carlsen and Grischuk, and in none of them the first 20 moves minimum were anywhere near that. For example in the game Carlsen won in Shamkir last year, the players had left theory by move 8, and from there it was just an entirely human and interesting game where Carlsen outplayed Grischuk. 

StinkingHyena
Sred wrote:
long_quach wrote:
Sred wrote:
long_quach wrote:

Chess. More correctly Western Chess. Even more correctly English Chess. England colonized India and changed the "original" rules.

Really? Quote from the Wikipedia article on Chess: "Around 1200, the rules of shatranj started to be modified in southern Europe".

 

Oral history, from the movie The Chess Players (Shatranj Ke Khilari) 1977. My bad. I like oral history. I believe it is the most faithful history.

Thinking about it, it's entirely possible that the English re-imported the modified game to India.

Chess was invented in India, but changes kept flowing back into India through the centuries. And yes the modern western version, was introduced to India during the colonial period, however prior to and concurrent to that, India has its own version, and appeared to have a professional body of chess players  (old east India company papers listed the deaths of prominent Indians, ‘chess player’ was the profession listed on several, also I ran across a book translated from Sanskrit to English written by an Indian which ‘adapted’ the original Indian openings to western chess)

long_quach
69AlphaMale109 wrote:

Chess was invented in central europe,  Chaturanga was invented in India.  

 

Riight. And to truly appreciate Shakespeare, you have to read it in the original Klingon.

long_quach
69AlphaMale109 wrote:
long_quach wrote:
69AlphaMale109 wrote:

Chess was invented in central europe,  Chaturanga was invented in India.  

 

Riight. And to truly appreciate Shakespeare, you have to read it in the original Klingon.

Speak for yourself.  

 

A Chinese person did not know that Chinese Chess came from in India, she thought it was invented in China. But she did know why the Elephants were there. Who fights with Elephants? India. I saw the movie Alexander.

long_quach
69AlphaMale109 wrote:

Chess as we know it today was invented in France,  and it's most recent predecessor developed across central Europe.  

 

Language.

refined

adapted, adopted

changed

invented means what the kids calls the "OG", the original gangster (gangsta?). Chess was invented in India. Its modern descendant may be from France.

long_quach
long_quach wrote:

invented means what the kids calls the "OG", the original gangster (gangsta?). Chess was invented in India. Its modern descendant may be from France.

 

Street racing was invented by the "OG's". It was invented during the Prohibition when the Original Gangsters bootleggers were running away from cops.

Drive-by-shooting was invented by the "OG's", during Prohibition.

Nothing is "invented" today.

SmyslovFan

Much of this hand-wringing over how much memorization there is in chess is completely divorced from the reality of professional chess today. Carlsen, for example, plays all sorts of openings as White, with the clear purpose of getting out of theory as quickly as possible.

 

There are quite a few professionals, such as Jobava and Ivanchuk, who play unusual moves as early as move 3. 

Chess is far more rich than most 1500s can imagine.

Optimissed

I doubt if they have any sense they will play out moves from Stockfish vs Stockfish. Stockfish is not yet as good as the best humans at openings and middle games.

Optimissed

In any case, chess is all about using the fixed initial position to produce creative situations where skill will be pre-eminent. Random chess reduces the skill factor of chess itself and makes it a very different game.

SmyslovFan
69AlphaMale109 wrote:

A lot of the best players of any one era are notoriously bad examples for opening play.  You don't NEED a good position if you're THAT much better than the other guy.   2 /3rds of Fischer's and Kasparov's opening repertoires lose by force with best play btw

Joined 3 days ago. 

drmrboss
Optimissed wrote:

I doubt if they have any sense they will play out moves from Stockfish vs Stockfish. Stockfish is not yet as good as the best humans at openings and middle games.

Have you seen the brainfish book ( cerebellum stockfish)? It is the book analysed with Stockfish mostly beyond depth 50.

There are millions of position on the book. I will be very suprised if you can find 1 in 10, 000 or 1 in million position where Stockfish played horrible position.

 

https://zipproth.de/Brainfish/brainfish/

 

 

Dont say Stockfish play bad in opening based on depth 10 analysis here or 10 sec analysis from your computer.

 

How to install brainfish

 

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/how-to-install-brainfish-the-best-chess-program-in-the-world

 

 

50Mark
euchrestud wrote:

There. Someone had to say it.

As a lowly 1500 level player I don't get burned by it so much because I don't have a ton memorized and neither do my opponents. I'm usually out of my internal macro by move eight. But top-level chess is a shame sometimes. The whole concept of going "deep into their preparation" is painful to watch. Am I really watching Carlsen play Grischuk? Or am I watching Stockfish play Stockfish? At the top level of chess it is the latter for the first 20 moves minimum, and then you get into even worse scenarios when one player is taken out of preparation but the other is still within it and it results in lopsided time trouble... I dunno, maybe you feel differently, but to me, this just isn't what I signed up for. I want to see which player can out-skill the other. Not which player can create a bigger move repository in their brain.

So propose to me a single rule change that instantly ruins all of our books and all of our programs and all of our theory so we can hit the "reset" button and put true chess talent on full display again.

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess960-chess-variants/functional-exchanged-chess

long_quach

The i.e.d.

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/create-the-most-lame-piece-in-the-game?page=2#comment-46976770