chess no theory

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Avatar of HazeFPS
I don’t know any theory as I see chess as art you make the masterpiece up yourself. Why paint over an already painted masterpiece?
Avatar of justbefair
HazeFPS wrote:
I don’t know any theory as I see chess as art you make the masterpiece up yourself. Why paint over an already painted masterpiece?

No theory? Then how is your rating improving so steadily?

Avatar of tygxc

You can get to grandmaster without theory.

 

Avatar of justbefair
tygxc wrote:

You can get to grandmaster without theory.

 

Please name one who did it.

Avatar of tygxc

#4
Capablanca even became world champion without theory.

And AlphaZero got to 3000 without theory: just the rules of the game and 700,000 games against itself.

 

Avatar of justbefair

Look at the op's last game and tell me he didn't know about back rank mates when he played Rc8. 

And then, when he noticed the bishop covering c1, he took deliberate steps to lure it away.

Avatar of Matt-the-Winner

@tygxc, Capablanca became a grandmaster when little theory had been developed, and many openings had yet to be discovered.  In the modern era of chess, nobody could become a grandmaster without theory.  At the top level, the slightest edge coming out of the opening often decides games.  

Avatar of tygxc

#7
Nowadays you can no longer become world champion without theory, but you can become a grandmaster with a rating above 2500 without any theory, just on tactics and endgames. To become a top grandmaster of 2800 you need theory.
Games at top level are mostly won in the endgame.
2 examples.
At Yekaterinburg Caruana-Maxime Vachier-Lagrave was a tense game in a heavily prepared opening, but should have ended a draw if MVL did not fail to build a fortress.
At the Sinquefield cup So defeated Swiercz in the reputedly drawish Berlin in a drawish rook ending.
As said AlphaZero became super grandmaster strength with nothing but the Laws of Chess, playing 700,000 games against itself and inventing its own theory.

Avatar of TrickyConman

Chess no Justsu.

Avatar of PerpetuallyPinned
justbefair wrote:
 

Look at the op's last game and tell me he didn't know about back rank mates when he played Rc8. 

And then, when he noticed the bishop covering c1, he took deliberate steps to lure it away.

I have no idea what "theory" consists of and what it doesn't. But OPs move Rc8 was a mistake that could've cost him a won game. White didn't see the King had no escape without a defender of c1.

Avatar of llama47
HazeFPS wrote:
I don’t know any theory as I see chess as art you make the masterpiece up yourself. Why paint over an already painted masterpiece?

Art has lots of theory and fundamentals... everyone uses the same set of basics whether it's art or chess.

Avatar of llama47
tygxc wrote:

#4
Capablanca even became world champion without theory.

And AlphaZero got to 3000 without theory: just the rules of the game and 700,000 games against itself.

You've apparently never looked at a single Capablanca game...

As for AZ, it played however many thousands of games and repeated what worked while discarding what didn't work (machine learning in a nutshell).

Avatar of llama47
tygxc wrote:

Nowadays you can no longer become world champion without theory, but you can become a grandmaster with a rating above 2500 without any theory, just on tactics and endgames. 

This is so silly that I can't tell if you're trolling.

Avatar of Laskersnephew
tygxc wrote:

#4
Capablanca even became world champion without theory.

This is a common mistake. If you actually read Capablanca's "My Chess Career," he makes it quite clear in his notes that when he won his famous match  with Marshall in 1909, he was already completely familiar with the openings that had been played in Lasker's matches against Tarrasch and Janowski.  There was a lot less "theory" to know in 1909! But Capa was quite familiar with the openings that were being played. Alekhine was the first champion to devote a great deal of time to studying the openings, but Capa wasn't ignorant

Avatar of ESP-918
tygxc wrote:

#7
Nowadays you can no longer become world champion without theory, but you can become a grandmaster with a rating above 2500 without any theory, just on tactics and endgames. To become a top grandmaster of 2800 you need theory.
Games at top level are mostly won in the endgame.
2 examples.
At Yekaterinburg Caruana-Maxime Vachier-Lagrave was a tense game in a heavily prepared opening, but should have ended a draw if MVL did not fail to build a fortress.
At the Sinquefield cup So defeated Swiercz in the reputedly drawish Berlin in a drawish rook ending.
As said AlphaZero became super grandmaster strength with nothing but the Laws of Chess, playing 700,000 games against itself and inventing its own theory.

Endgame has lots of theory my friend 

Just to name a few : 

Vancura position

Lucena position

Philidor position 

Etc.... 

How are you going to win them if you don't know theory?

What about creating a fortress? Queen vs minor pieces for example , you need to know this staff.

 

Avatar of Laskersnephew

"but you can become a grandmaster with a rating above 2500 without any theory, just on tactics and endgames"

 

If you've ever had the pleasure of analyzing with "just" an ordinary IM, you will be amazed at how much theory they know. Not just because they study theory, but because they look at lots of grandmaster games and absorb theory almost by osmosis.  

Avatar of tygxc

#12
I have studied several Capablanca games, including all of his world championship match games.
If AlphaZero can get to 3000 just by playing against itself, then a human should be able to reach 2500 without opening theory.
#13
I am quite serious about that and that is also the opinion of grandmasters I know.

Avatar of llama47
Laskersnephew wrote:

"but you can become a grandmaster with a rating above 2500 without any theory, just on tactics and endgames"

 

If you've ever had the pleasure of analyzing with "just" an ordinary IM, you will be amazed at how much theory they know. Not just because they study theory, but because they look at lots of grandmaster games and absorb theory almost by osmosis.  

Exactly.

An average GM often knows more theory in an opening he's NEVER played than a 1600 who plays it as their main choice.

Avatar of tygxc

#15
Yes, endgame theory is important: it is near impossible to re-invent over the board. Capablanca also emphasised the need to study endgames.
#16 I have analysed with several IM and GM. Some know a lot of theory, some do not. One day I discussed with an IM. Me: "I would like to play the Nimzo-Indian Defence too, but it is so much theory." IM: "I do not know the theory either, I just make it look as if I know what I am doing"
A GM: "There is no theory, only good moves and bad moves."

Avatar of IMKeto

"As said AlphaZero became super grandmaster strength with nothing but the Laws of Chess, playing 700,000 games against itself and inventing its own theory."

The problem with this is...Humans cannot learn like AZ did.  Humans cannot remember 700,000 games. 

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