Chess progress and understanding.

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crissy, I belive that 'speculative' and 'unsound' are synonyms in chess sacrifice lingo.  A speculative sacrifice is one that is unsound but the opponent may not find the correct path to demonstrate the refuation.  The terms do not reflect whether or not the player pragmatically benefits from the sacrifice, only its theoretical status.


Yes, I rather thought so - it's problematic though. There are other issues as well that aren't described very well by a sliding scale of ? - ?! - !? - ! and so on, or their verbal equivalents. As far as I remember reading, the Immortal game is 'unsound', though presumably AA didn't think it was, and I guess he wasn't acting speculatively either. Really we need to introduce the idea of whether it worked or not at the time under the heading of 'un/successful'; 'un/sound' is fine, after the event, and I would reserve 'speculative' for certain players' styles. I think Tal would be the outstanding example of a speculative sacrificer.

Tricklev
dsarkar wrote:
Kupov wrote:

There are speculative sacrifices in master games.


 Then our study of the masters game was faulty! Each masters game with sacrifice I have found precision calculations - there have been positional sacrifices - but those are not speculative - they knew exactly what they were doing!


MIght I suggest reading up on Rudolf Spielmann? He seemed to disagree alot with what you are saying, and he was no doubt of grandmaster level. (As strong as that would have been in the 30ies.)

Kupov
richie_and_oprah wrote:

My System/Nimzowitch

Pawn Structure Chess/Soltis

Understanding Chess Move by Move/Nunn

Modern Chess Strategy/Pachman

Art of Attack/Vukovich

My Best Games of Chess/Alekhine

500 Master Games/Tartakover

The Immortal Games of Capablanca/Reinfeld

My 60 Memorable Games/Fischer

The Art of the Middlegame/Keres and Kotov

*********************************************

Start with those 10 and see if they are not all better than what Silman offers.  In particular, books such as the Keres and Kotov cover EVERYTHING Silman does in his amateur book, except in less space, for less money, and by Grandmasters who were great at teaching.

You will find that everything Silman says is said better somewhere else, if it is true.

 

 


I hear very good things about Kotov's "Think like a Grandmaster", but then... I heard it from Silman so it might be wildly untrue :P.

jpd303

i forget what this thread was about, but someone mentioned that you begin to think like the author of the book you study.  that is so true, when i read "My System" i found myself jumping on tables and yelling things like WHY MUST I LOSE TO THIS IDIOT and complaining about people threatening to smoke

Kupov

When I read all of those Rubinstein books I finally understood why I could never play chess or interact with another human being again.

WanderingWinder
richie_and_oprah wrote:

crissy, I belive that 'speculative' and 'unsound' are synonyms in chess sacrifice lingo.  A speculative sacrifice is one that is unsound but the opponent may not find the correct path to demonstrate the refuation.  The terms do not reflect whether or not the player pragmatically benefits from the sacrifice, only its theoretical status.


I'm not so sure. I'm more under the impression that a speculative sacrifice is one where it's not clear that you get an advantage out of, and includes sacrifices where, for example, the resulting positions are double-edged and unclear. Not that what you described is by any means excluded. So I think that most speculative sacrifices go into the ?! camp, but some might fit into the !? area. Of course, I haven't talked to all that many masters about this, so I could well be wrong.

Kupov

That's what I thought as well.

corum

TACTICS: “Maneuvers that take advantage of short-term opportunities. A position with many traps and combinations is considered to be tactical in nature.”

SACRIFICE: “The voluntary offer of material for compensation in space, time, pawn structure, or even force. Unlike a combination, a sacrifice is not always a calculable commodity and often entails an element of uncertainty.”

COMBINATION: “A combination is a sacrifice, combined with a forced sequence of moves, which exploits specific peculiarities of the position in the hope of attaining a certain goal.”

see http://www.jeremysilman.com/book_reviews_js/js_understanding_sacrifice.html

I think it's helpful to distinguish in this way

Elubas
richie_and_oprah wrote:

Explaining faulty ideas better than explaining good ideas poorly is a bankrupt policy.

How many 2600s got there on the backs of Silman level analysis?

 

 

Silman is reflective of the American style of education:  dumbing it down to meet a greater number of average to below average students.

Not sure how anyone can argue his explanations are better or more lucid to 1400's than John Nunn, Tartakover, Nimzowitch, Alekhine or the other 'Fathers' of chess literature who were both prolific Grandmasters and excellent instructors for people of all skill level.


Very strong teachers have very good advice but miss out on more intermediate ideas that amateurs need to know before they can fully understand a lot of the brilliance of the stronger players. And Silman's teachings are valid anywhere from 1000 to 2000. It made me understand chess and what not to do as an amateur. It has helped me understand more advanced positional ideas like in my system. But silman's books I don't even consider that dumbed down because there are some truly advanced ideas in them but it's also easier to understand than most books. Yes, a book can be both. All I know though is that it helped me alot.

kensai
Elubas wrote:
richie_and_oprah wrote:

Explaining faulty ideas better than explaining good ideas poorly is a bankrupt policy.

How many 2600s got there on the backs of Silman level analysis?

 

 

Silman is reflective of the American style of education:  dumbing it down to meet a greater number of average to below average students.

Not sure how anyone can argue his explanations are better or more lucid to 1400's than John Nunn, Tartakover, Nimzowitch, Alekhine or the other 'Fathers' of chess literature who were both prolific Grandmasters and excellent instructors for people of all skill level.


Very strong teachers have very good advice but miss out on more intermediate ideas that amateurs need to know before they can fully understand a lot of the brilliance of the stronger players. And Silman's teachings are valid anywhere from 1000 to 2000. It made me understand chess and what not to do as an amateur. It has helped me understand more advanced positional ideas like in my system. But silman's books I don't even consider that dumbed down because there are some truly advanced ideas in them but it's also easier to understand than most books. Yes, a book can be both. All I know though is that it helped me alot.


 I agree-

I understand that Silman get poo-pooed on a lot around here becuase of some inaccuracies in his work. Keep in mind that the target audiences are beginner to lower intermediate, maybe even intermediate level players. At these levels you aren't concerned with visualizing 20 moves away, but you are concerned with issues such as 'bishops vs. knights', and pawn structures.

And seriously, do we really expect that beginning students are going to go out and get a library of books on chess just to decide how much they like it?

A couple of analogies that I hope will illustrate the point.

A student ( I used to tutor math) is just learning the concept of variables. Presented with a real-life problem (also known as 'story-problems'), I know that a much more accurate answer can be found using calculus and / or statistics. However, I decide to show the student an algebraic method for a rough estimate (first or second order equations rather than third and fourth orders). Sure, it's not exact, but for the target audience it is more than adequate.

Also a student, a musician wants to learn an instrument. The first thing the instructor does is put music on the stand. Simple nursery rhyme tunes and such. As the student gains an interest and improves, then the student is given more music (etudes, etc.). IF and WHEN the student decides to pursue the instrument as a serious endeavor, ONLY THEN will the student go back to work out the ultra-fine muscle control (examples are tremolos and vibratos) required for exceedingly beautiful music.

I feel that Silman presents a variety of important topics to a beginning, and often clueless audience. His work is absolutely adequate for that group. OF COURSE there are better books around that focus on specific topics and go deeper into the subjects, but most authors are writing to an audience with an assumed level of understanding that beginners simply don't. He presents the important topics, enough to whet your appetite for such things, without boring you to tears.

Elubas
kensai wrote:
Elubas wrote:
richie_and_oprah wrote:

Explaining faulty ideas better than explaining good ideas poorly is a bankrupt policy.

How many 2600s got there on the backs of Silman level analysis?

 

 

Silman is reflective of the American style of education:  dumbing it down to meet a greater number of average to below average students.

Not sure how anyone can argue his explanations are better or more lucid to 1400's than John Nunn, Tartakover, Nimzowitch, Alekhine or the other 'Fathers' of chess literature who were both prolific Grandmasters and excellent instructors for people of all skill level.


Very strong teachers have very good advice but miss out on more intermediate ideas that amateurs need to know before they can fully understand a lot of the brilliance of the stronger players. And Silman's teachings are valid anywhere from 1000 to 2000. It made me understand chess and what not to do as an amateur. It has helped me understand more advanced positional ideas like in my system. But silman's books I don't even consider that dumbed down because there are some truly advanced ideas in them but it's also easier to understand than most books. Yes, a book can be both. All I know though is that it helped me alot.


 I agree-

I understand that Silman get poo-pooed on a lot around here becuase of some inaccuracies in his work. Keep in mind that the target audiences are beginner to lower intermediate, maybe even intermediate level players. At these levels you aren't concerned with visualizing 20 moves away, but you are concerned with issues such as 'bishops vs. knights', and pawn structures.

And seriously, do we really expect that beginning students are going to go out and get a library of books on chess just to decide how much they like it?

A couple of analogies that I hope will illustrate the point.

A student ( I used to tutor math) is just learning the concept of variables. Presented with a real-life problem (also known as 'story-problems'), I know that a much more accurate answer can be found using calculus and / or statistics. However, I decide to show the student an algebraic method for a rough estimate (first or second order equations rather than third and fourth orders). Sure, it's not exact, but for the target audience it is more than adequate.

Also a student, a musician wants to learn an instrument. The first thing the instructor does is put music on the stand. Simple nursery rhyme tunes and such. As the student gains an interest and improves, then the student is given more music (etudes, etc.). IF and WHEN the student decides to pursue the instrument as a serious endeavor, ONLY THEN will the student go back to work out the ultra-fine muscle control (examples are tremolos and vibratos) required for exceedingly beautiful music.

I feel that Silman presents a variety of important topics to a beginning, and often clueless audience. His work is absolutely adequate for that group. OF COURSE there are better books around that focus on specific topics and go deeper into the subjects, but most authors are writing to an audience with an assumed level of understanding that beginners simply don't. He presents the important topics, enough to whet your appetite for such things, without boring you to tears.


Yes. Silman covers many things that a book by a world champ might not include. Silman's books are excellent for that player who has trouble making a plan and needs to understand the positional imbalances on the chessboard and learn when to look for a combination (silman doesn't provide a ton of that but tells you a good method on how to get better at calculation). These ideas are extremely important in order to get the plateau at the average stage. Understanding the ideas of how to reasees your chess along with the amateur's mind well should probably get to the amateur at about 1800 or more. From there he can be proud of himself but obivously he can not only use that but understand more advanced ideas from there. That's a very simple rule in getting good at most things that kensai already mentioned: when starting out, it's easiest and best to learn the basics to develop interest and get gradually more and more complex lessons as learning what comes before the hard stuff helps you actually know how to do it. Silman's books are an excellent way to do that. There are very few chess teachers that can get into the amateur's head like silman does, and he not only explains the imbalances, but tries to change the thinking processes which is the right way to convert more knowledge into extra rating points, which isn't always easy to do.

RobertKaucher
Kupov wrote:

Since I started playing chess earlier this year (well technically last year, but 365 days have not yet elapsed) my rating on this site (live chess) has doubled from 800+ - 1600+.

But I don't feel like I am good at chess (and I know that comparing myself to all of the great chess player in the world, I'm not). However even comparing myself to...myself a few hundred rating points ago, I don't feel like I have gained any new chess understanding or insight.

The only time that I felt like I was really beginning to understand this chess game was when I checked out "Chess for Dummies" from my local library. My rating at the time was a solid 950. I read about the main principles of chess, develop your pieces, control the center, etc. As well as some basic tactics.

Suddenly I was playing at an 1100 level and I felt great, all of the mysteries chess had to offer had been unlocked! Now 500 rating points later I feel as though I don't understand anything. I had always assumed that players above 1400 never had to worry about hanging pawns or pieces, or making simple mistakes.

Part of this comes from the fact that I always try to play players close to my own rating, so that every game is a struggle. I know that I could trounce most 1100-1400's, but even knowing this it feels as though my game is actively becoming worse with every 10 rating points I acquire.

I know I'm not the best, or even a "good" chess player, but I had always assumed that upon hitting the 1600 landmark some sort of mystical chess understanding would be mine.

To any players higher or lower than myself, do you ever feel like this? And if you don't then at what point do you believe that you really gained an understanding of chess and became more than a beginner?


Dan Heisman has a saying. It goes something like this: "How many games have you lost because of something you knew vs something you didn't know?" I such at chess because of HOW I play, not because of what I know or don't know. When I drop a piece it is not because I do not know tactics, it is because I didn't take the time to look at my opponent's possibilities. The combinations in the games of players bellow 2000 are generally trivial, triggered by the opponent's blunders not by the winners great positional knowledge. Until the class B and lower player builds a strong foundation of OTB analytical skill strategy, positional elements, and anything else are at best secondary and more probably meaningless and there is no hope of improvement.

Kupov, read these...

http://www.chesscafe.com/text/real.txt

http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman10.pdf

http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman98.pdf

http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman89.pdf

http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman55.pdf

Elubas

I learned in playing that it's just as important to know how to apply knowledge of chess which can be obtained best with playing experience.