Chess vs IQ

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FireNight2643

please friend me!

 

BlackLawliet
MMTMIT wrote:
BlackLawliet wrote:

Very interesting.

No. Show me a reliable source saying that Einstein took the WAIS.

according to Albert Einstein's biography, "He did the WAIS-IV, the IQ test most commonly used today.

BlackLawliet
Tonya_Harding wrote:

I've seen tests where the average of an adult was 110, and others where it was 100.

You make a good point. In this forum I am referring to the WAIS and the WISC. I think this is what the vast majority of people are referring to, but there are probably people referring to other scales.

MMTMIT
BlackLawliet wrote:
MMTMIT wrote:
BlackLawliet wrote:

Very interesting.

No. Show me a reliable source saying that Einstein took the WAIS.

according to Albert Einstein's biography, "He did the WAIS-IV, the IQ test most commonly used today.

Which biography?

QuickBoots

Surprisingly the correlation between chess and IQ is the same as IQ and everything else.... One can be a wonderful chess player without any natural gift, it is mostly about study as it's already been said... Creativity, passion and dedication... That's said i think the top chess player are all very smart people, as anyone who peak in their respective field at world level. Having a good IQ is not going to bring you anywhere without study and effort, as for anyone else, this is the real factor about chess capacity, leave the self preising of the Ego on the side, no one is going to be a good chess player just for an high IQ

Dangerous_Owl

Surprisingly all chess players who don't quit all have high IQ.

BlackLawliet
MMTMIT wrote:
BlackLawliet wrote:
MMTMIT wrote:
BlackLawliet wrote:

Very interesting.

No. Show me a reliable source saying that Einstein took the WAIS.

according to Albert Einstein's biography, "He did the WAIS-IV, the IQ test most commonly used today.

Which biography?

I just looked it up and it was called Albert Einstein's Biography.

BlackLawliet

What you're referring to when you say that he "held back progress in physics" is when he argued against quantum theory. This doesn't make him any less of a genius. The reason he argued against quantum theory was because it had an aspect of complete randomness which makes no logical sense, and the fact that for quantum theory to be true, it would mean that some objects would be able to travel faster than light speed. Again, this doesn't make him any less of a super-genius. Of course he argued against something that was completely illogical in theory, I think almost anyone in his situation, even by your standards of what a genius is, would probably argue against it. 

BlackYagami
Optimissed wrote:
BlackLawliet wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

I agree to an extent, but keep in mind that many, if not all of the top players have IQs of 175+ landing them 15 points above the super-genius category, so I do think there is a correlation.>>

No way is 160 "super genius". It's at the bottom end of the "very bright spectrum".

Actually, according to the Historical IQ Classification Table, an IQ of 140 is already classified as genius or near genius, with an IQ of 160 being well above that, in the top 99.997 percentile. Perhaps we are talking about different IQ scales....?

That hasn't been complied by geniuses, then. A lot of people with IQs around 130 to 135 think they're really bright but it's a big fish, small pond thing, so they think they're really bright and they latch onto the idea that genius starts at 140, which has, I suppose, been propagated by egalitarians!

The thing is, just because someone says something doesn't mean it's true. Of course, I'm included. The World is full of people making claims and trying to stake out some territory on a "professional" basis. You should be sceptical, especially when the claims really defy common sense. 140 is simply too common an IQ level to be "genius", which is reserved for something much more special. I'm even talking about a different way of thinking. Much faster, much more accurate. Imagine a person who can work something out in three minutes using sparse evidence that it might take a team of scientists three years to discover. That's what genius is. Not the plodding efforts of the scientists, who will have IQs most probably in the 130 to 145 range.

I'm sorry, but I'm really just not sure why you feel that you alone are warrented to define the term "genius" and set that standerd for that term to be aplied bassed on however you feel, rather then backing it up with actual legitimate phycological data or findings in the manor that BlackLawliet did. Generally speaking, phycological data has found that the actual physical nerology of the brain tends to change around the IQ rang of 140 - 145, and clear differences in the way people think can also be easily and readily observed. Many prominent phycologists, such as the professor Jordan Peterson, have stated that if you have an IQ of 140 - 145, you can be the best or most prominent individual in your entire field, which I would say should qualify you as genius, and apparently most phycologists would agree with me, based on the fact that the 140 - 145 range is literally where real phycology has determined that genius generally begins.

BlackLawliet

Thank you

x-9140319185
BlackLawliet wrote:

What you're referring to when you say that he "held back progress in physics" is when he argued against quantum theory. This doesn't make him any less of a genius. The reason he argued against quantum theory was because it had an aspect of complete randomness which makes no logical sense, and the fact that for quantum theory to be true, it would mean that some objects would be able to travel faster than light speed. Again, this doesn't make him any less of a super-genius. Of course he argued against something that was completely illogical in theory, I think almost anyone in his situation, even by your standards of what a genius is, would probably argue against it. 

His field was relativity, which is largely determinative in nature and the math. Quantum mechanics is the very opposite of general relativity, which is why he had a bit of an aversion to it.

x-9140319185

Also, QM is not illogical. It may seem that way in our everyday lives govered by Newton mechanics, but QM is logically consistent with the microscopic world. The reason we don’t see quantum effects in our normal world is because all the probabilities in QM average out. Now, there’s the issue of quantum gravity, but that’s M-theory realm.

BlackLawliet
TerminatorC800 wrote:

Also, QM is not illogical. It may seem that way in our everyday lives govered by Newton mechanics, but QM is logically consistent with the microscopic world. The reason we don’t see quantum effects in our normal world is because all the probabilities in QM average out. Now, there’s the issue of quantum gravity, but that’s M-theory realm.

I completely agree. What I meant was that when Albert Einstein was around it would seem completely illogical due to the consistent nature of the scientific fields which were already discovered at the time.

BlackYagami
Optimissed wrote:
BlackYagami wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
BlackLawliet wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

I agree to an extent, but keep in mind that many, if not all of the top players have IQs of 175+ landing them 15 points above the super-genius category, so I do think there is a correlation.>>

No way is 160 "super genius". It's at the bottom end of the "very bright spectrum".

Actually, according to the Historical IQ Classification Table, an IQ of 140 is already classified as genius or near genius, with an IQ of 160 being well above that, in the top 99.997 percentile. Perhaps we are talking about different IQ scales....?

That hasn't been complied by geniuses, then. A lot of people with IQs around 130 to 135 think they're really bright but it's a big fish, small pond thing, so they think they're really bright and they latch onto the idea that genius starts at 140, which has, I suppose, been propagated by egalitarians!

The thing is, just because someone says something doesn't mean it's true. Of course, I'm included. The World is full of people making claims and trying to stake out some territory on a "professional" basis. You should be sceptical, especially when the claims really defy common sense. 140 is simply too common an IQ level to be "genius", which is reserved for something much more special. I'm even talking about a different way of thinking. Much faster, much more accurate. Imagine a person who can work something out in three minutes using sparse evidence that it might take a team of scientists three years to discover. That's what genius is. Not the plodding efforts of the scientists, who will have IQs most probably in the 130 to 145 range.

I'm sorry, but I'm really just not sure why you feel that you alone are warrented to define the term "genius" and set that standerd for that term to be aplied bassed on however you feel, rather then backing it up with actual legitimate phycological data or findings in the manor that BlackLawliet did. Generally speaking, phycological data has found that the actual physical nerology of the brain tends to change around the IQ rang of 140 - 145, and clear differences in the way people think can also be easily and readily observed. Many prominent phycologists, such as the professor Jordan Peterson, have stated that if you have an IQ of 140 - 145, you can be the best or most prominent individual in your entire field, which I would say should qualify you as genius, and apparently most phycologists would agree with me, based on the fact that the 140 - 145 range is literally where real phycology has determined that genius generally begins.

I'm arguing for a meaningful definition of genius rather than a fake one put in place by people who don't understand the subject. You can have a go at defining it too, if you want.

Ok that's fair, but how can you say that phycologists, who's entire profession consists of studding the brain still don't understand the subject and so their definition is "fake," while at the same time implying that you do understand it?

BlackLawliet
Optimissed wrote:

You speak of real psychology. There's no such thing because it isn't an empirical science. So your main premise is a non-starter. I mentioned my wife. The one who sat a Mensa IQ test and came out at 156. Well, she's a psychologist. She holds a Master's degree. She thinks there are a lot of rather incompetent psychologists. There is certainly not one view which has to stand. That's rather authoritarian, don't you think?

Oh, and my wife certainly wouldn't think she's a genius. She's just intelligent and competent at what she does.

You may have a point, but the way I see it is that there is only one difference between my argument and yours; yours is filled with hypocrisy. In this forum, you stated what you thought a genius was objectively. You are doing exactly what I am, yet I get called authoritarian and you don't?

BlackYagami
Optimissed wrote:

You speak of real psychology. There's no such thing because it isn't an empirical science. So your main premise is a non-starter. I mentioned my wife. The one who sat a Mensa IQ test and came out at 156. Well, she's a psychologist. She holds a Master's degree. She thinks there are a lot of rather incompetent psychologists. There is certainly not one view which has to stand. That's rather authoritarian, don't you think?

Oh, and my wife certainly wouldn't think she's a genius. She's just intelligent and competent at what she does.

I completely agree, that would be quite an authoritarian assertion to make, but that's not the point that I'm making. I'm simply proposing that you should state a reason for why these definitions that are propagated in many cases by sound reasurch aren't satisfactory, or at the very least make an argument for why your definition is.

BlackLawliet
Optimissed wrote:
BlackLawliet wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

I agree to an extent, but keep in mind that many, if not all of the top players have IQs of 175+ landing them 15 points above the super-genius category, so I do think there is a correlation.>>

No way is 160 "super genius". It's at the bottom end of the "very bright spectrum".

Actually, according to the Historical IQ Classification Table, an IQ of 140 is already classified as genius or near genius, with an IQ of 160 being well above that, in the top 99.997 percentile. Perhaps we are talking about different IQ scales....?

That hasn't been complied by geniuses, then. A lot of people with IQs around 130 to 135 think they're really bright but it's a big fish, small pond thing, so they think they're really bright and they latch onto the idea that genius starts at 140, which has, I suppose, been propagated by egalitarians!

The thing is, just because someone says something doesn't mean it's true. Of course, I'm included. The World is full of people making claims and trying to stake out some territory on a "professional" basis. You should be sceptical, especially when the claims really defy common sense. 140 is simply too common an IQ level to be "genius", which is reserved for something much more special. I'm even talking about a different way of thinking. Much faster, much more accurate. Imagine a person who can work something out in three minutes using sparse evidence that it might take a team of scientists three years to discover. That's what genius is. Not the plodding efforts of the scientists, who will have IQs most probably in the 130 to 145 range.

By the way, this is the post where you grace us all with your objective definition of what a genius is.

BlackLawliet

Okay.

 

blueemu
zaskar wrote:

ELO=IQ x 10...

Calculate my IQ, please.

BlackYagami
Optimissed wrote:

Many prominent phycologists, such as the professor Jordan Peterson, have stated that if you have an IQ of 140 - 145, you can be the best or most prominent individual in your entire field>>

Yeah, that's quite true. Being prominent in a professional field would require basic intelligence but there are many other factors in play. Willingness to learn and to work, interpersonal skills, memory .... all sorts of things are required, tied together with intellectual skills or ability. I knew a pathologist who fitted that bill before he died early from cancer. He wasn't a genius .... he was clever. My father was considered foremost in his own field. He was a quantity surveyor. Prominent people in their fields aren't necessarily geniuses. My grandfather was thought of as an excellent fitter and my wife's father was a sheet metal worker. 20 years before I met my wife I was interested in train spotting. I was invited aboard a Napier Deltic and shown the engine room by the driver. Rather thrilling because of the high pitched whine the Deltic makes as the revs increase. The driver pointed to some ducting and cowling on the exhaust and maybe the intake. He told me this engine was a prototype and somewhere, down near Manchester, there was a genius who had put it together without any drawings. That turned out to be my wife's dad.

That is all sincerely very interesting, buy I must rebuttal haha. I would argue that being the MOST prominent in a professional field takes much more than a basic intelligence level, and many of the traits you listed as substitutes for high intelligence, or at least other factors that are at play, are directly tied in to intelligence, such as memory, interpersonal skills, etc. Also, wanted to apologize for the double teaming, I swear it's unintentional haha - I'm just really enjoying where this conversation is going, as well as the points that you're making wink.png