Chess will never be solved, here's why

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Avatar of Optimissed

I mean, you aren't expected to understand anything and our semblance of communication is for form's sake.

Avatar of tygxc

@6595

"A hypothetical super power chess computer running at insane speeds might claim, prior to making its first move: Mate in 2,212,598,303,505,004,977"
++ No, that is mathematically impossible. There are only 10^44 legal positions, most of them nonsensical. After a search of width w candidate moves with depth d moves we reach w^d positions, assuming we reduce w to avoid transpositions.
This gives the following maximum depths for various widths:
width depth
2  148
3    93
4    74
5    63
6    57
7    52
8    49
9    46
10  44
11  42
12  41
13  40
14  38
15  37
16  37
17  36
18  35
19  34
20  34
Any checkmate in more than 148 moves must consist of forced moves only and by both sides.
The hypothetical super power chess computer running at insane speeds can only state, prior to making its first move: 'I offer a draw, because it is a draw'.

Avatar of MARattigan

Is this, "Never Mind the Quality, Feel the Width"?

Avatar of Elroch

I feel my post #6600 works equally well as a joke and as a statement of fact. It is only a shame that it was not post #6660.

Avatar of Optimissed
Optimissed wrote:
Elroch wrote:

Contrary to @Optimissed's claim, I am 100% certain that those who claim that 2. Ba6 loses are guessing. Of course those who are the subject of this knowledge may erroneously believe I am only guessing this, but they would be wrong to do so.

Well after all, I know whether I'm guessing or not. You keep reminding us about proof via assertion and now it's time to remind yourself about it. You're the one who's making an assertion. I'm saying that I know without doubt that the result is clear, which is my opinion, based on fact. You are asserting that I'm guessing but you cannot prove that I may not, for instance, have a better understanding than you do, rather than a worse one.

 

Avatar of Optimissed

So it isn't a statement of fact, any more than my claim is. Both claims are based on opinion concerning which facts are correct.

Avatar of PowerfulMover

i dissagree about the statement

 

Avatar of PowerfulMover

computers will likely solve chess in 10 years

 

Avatar of PowerfulMover

solving  by meaning it will play the game perfectly from start to finish

Avatar of PowerfulMover

the game will never stop being played though happy.png.. that statement is more correct

Avatar of Optimissed
PowerfulMover wrote:

computers will likely solve chess in 10 years

 

Thanks but that's been shown to be impossible.

Avatar of PowerfulMover

Yeah well 200 years ago going to space and driving a car was too..

Avatar of Optimissed
PowerfulMover wrote:

Yeah well 200 years ago going to space and driving a car was too..

Not driving a car, obviously. But solving chess requires too much computing. It's been discussed in very great depth in this and other threads and apart from tygxc who believes it can be solved in five years, we think it might take millions of years at present computing speeds. That's actually being generous. You can work out how many games need to be solved, although of course there's redundancy.

Avatar of Optimissed

Regarding the car, railways have existed since, I think, the late 1500s. By the 1700s, static engines were commonplace to draw wagons along the railways. It wouldn't be a big leap to imagine cars and horses and carts existed.

Avatar of Elroch

First railway line was 1825.

Avatar of Optimissed
Elroch wrote:

First railway line was 1825.

No, you're hundreds of years out.

Avatar of Optimissed

I seem to remember they were first used in France in the 1500s. Perhaps you're thinking it has to be steam locomotive driven.

Avatar of Optimissed


I decided to find out where you got that from. So I Googled "first railway line" and I got this, which seems to have been written by an ignoramus.

<<The first railway line in the world dates back to 1825, when George Stephenson connected the towns of Stockton and Darlington in England by rail. The line was intended to transport coal. The wagons were pulled by steam engines. Passengers were transported by horse-drawn carriages.

1. The early days (1830-1835) - Train World>>

Avatar of Optimissed

I think that was the first steam-hauled commercial line but railways had been in use for about 250 years industrially.

Avatar of Elroch

It's a matter of what you call a railway. I recall learning about the first railways at school (one of the few things from history that stuck) - the Stockton and Darlington railway, in Victorian times. I did have to look up the date. That referred to mechanically powered, public railways, as most people imagine them. Horses pulling trolleys on rails are not really the same thing.

Wikipedia answers the question you were considering: "The oldest known, man/animal-hauled railways date back to the 6th century BC in Corinth, Greece."

I have to say that from my limited experience of Greek railways in the late 20th century, they probably got less efficient over the intervening period. Being several hours late was the norm.