Chess will never be solved, here's why

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Avatar of Ian_Rastall
btickler wrote:

His comment was fine, if uninformed. 

Do you mean because that's not what you're talking about? Because you can easily get an opening book to carry you out fifty moves, and if you've only got seven pieces left on the board, then there you go.

So I assume you mean *all* positions. Mapping out chess so you can get from starting position to the end via any route?

Avatar of DiogenesDue
shangtsung111 wrote:

in fact either you have problem understanding  or kidding with me .do you remember? i also mentioned size of letters .ringing any bells smaller the size lesser amount this shouldnt be that hard to understand.

What's sad is that even your attempts to retreat are absurd.  Why not just say that your "pages" are infinite planes, if you are going to pretend you fully understood how inaccurate your "exaggerated" example was? 

I doubt you are a teacher, but if you are...let's all have a moment of silence for your students.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
Ian_Rastall wrote:
btickler wrote:

His comment was fine, if uninformed. 

Do you mean because that's not what you're talking about? Because you can easily get an opening book to carry you out fifty moves, and if you've only got seven pieces left on the board, then there you go.

So I assume you mean *all* positions. Mapping out chess so you can get from starting position to the end via any route?

50 moves is 100 ply from the starting position.  Please feel free to give as a sampling of all these "easily gotten" opening books...or tell you what, you start analyzing on Stockfish on your PC from the opening position, and post back here when you get to 100 ply...

Avatar of DiogenesDue
shangtsung111 wrote:

your doubt means nothing to me.as someone calling me liar i have no more time to waste,or accept.you better accept you're a zombie with humor circuit in the brain totally fried?a simple joke even a kid could understand but you failed .sorry for you,on second thought not sorry i dont care.

Your "joke" was easy to understand.  It was just a joke made about something you lack knowledge about.  Kind of like a flat earther making a joke that ridicules the idea that the earth revolves around the sun.  It tends to fall flat.

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Avatar of DiogenesDue
Ian_Rastall wrote:

 

That's your idea of proof/support?  A screenshot of one opening database (not really an opening book, btw) that lists 100 half moves in a text description "book depth" field?  How many games in the database, how many openings, and how many actually go out to 100 ply?  Where's the rest of the "easily gotten" opening books that go out 50 moves (and for all openings covered)? 

Avatar of DiogenesDue
shangtsung111 wrote:
btickler wrote:
shangtsung111 wrote:

your doubt means nothing to me.as someone calling me liar i have no more time to waste,or accept.you better accept you're a zombie with humor circuit in the brain totally fried?a simple joke even a kid could understand but you failed .sorry for you,on second thought not sorry i dont care.

Your "joke" was easy to understand.  It was just a joke made about something you lack knowledge about.  Kind of like a flat earther making a joke that ridicules the idea that the earth revolves around the sun.  It tends to fall flat.

oglum senin beyin hasarin mi var lan?soyledik o kadar anladinmi defol git.

git başımdan güvensizliklerle dolu küçük adam

Avatar of Ian_Rastall

I think the important thing is to have noticed the tone that I was using throughout, and to have honored that by matching it. That's the problem. I came back to say that in most cases you actually can't get past thirty moves, because when I go through the process over in Fritz that's what I discover. I guess it's all right to still come in here and say it, but man does it suck to have to enter back in to this thought process.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
Ian_Rastall wrote:

I think the important thing is to have noticed the tone that I was using throughout, and to have honored that by matching it. That's the problem. I came back to say that in most cases you actually can't get past thirty moves, because when I go through the process over in Fritz that's what I discover. I guess it's all right to still come in here and say it, but man does it suck to have to enter back in to this thought process.

I don't know why you came back and then decided to confront the poster defending you rather then the poster that disagreed with you...but I guess you bridled at the "uninformed" characterization.

Avatar of Ian_Rastall

I was responding to you. I should be quoting these, but I haven't. Except I've fallen into some kind of toxic loop here.

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Wow
Avatar of DiogenesDue
Ian_Rastall wrote:

I was responding to you. I should be quoting these, but I haven't. Except I've fallen into some kind of toxic loop here.

Well, I agree that shangtsung111 is toxic, even when speaking in Turkish, but there was no reason to jump on his bandwagon.  He seems to have left you behind.

Avatar of Optimissed
shangtsung111 wrote:

if its astronomical true.but it may not be

 


Hi, I just woke up and the coffee isn't working yet. So I couldn't decipher what you were saying to me earlier but you seem to have got into a merry conversation with various people anyway.  Regarding the number of perfect games, if you define a perfect move as anything that doesn't lose, although other definitions could be used, then a perfect game is composed solely of moves by either side which don't lose. And if, let's say, on average, each side has only three perfect moves on each turn, then that gives, in a 50 move game, 3 to the power of 100 permutations of such moves or 3^100 perfect games. And according to the calculator, that is, let me see, it was 5.15e + 47 zeros as I recall. That's a lot of permutations and a lot of potentially perfect games.

I see you're Turkish. Which part of Turkey do you live in? In the late 60s to mid 70s I travelled to many regions of Turkey, except for the Lake Van region. Had a lot of friends there and still do have a few. Maybe one or two you've heard of. At one time I could speak a little Turkish, but not any more.

Avatar of MARattigan
llama36 wrote:
shangtsung111 wrote:

if its astronomical true.but it may not be

There is a simple proof it will be enormous... namely in the EGTBs we already have.

But you don't necessarily reach the EGTBs.

The starting position could be a forced mate in 10 that never gets below 30 men.

Avatar of Optimissed
DesperateKingWalk wrote:
MARattigan wrote:
llama36 wrote:
shangtsung111 wrote:

if its astronomical true.but it may not be

There is a simple proof it will be enormous... namely in the EGTBs we already have.

But you don't necessarily reach the EGTBs.

The starting position could be a forced mate in 10 that never gets below 30 men.

Exactly! but not likely. 

This is why people in this thread are just low brow. 

That make assumptions on top of assumptions. To formulate a proof that chess is X, and only takes X many positions to prove. 

There is a reason that retrograde analysis is used to solve any chess positions, and that is accepted as a proof. 


You're talking to the person with a brow so high he's off the planet. I didn't understand a word of his comment.

Avatar of Optimissed
shangtsung111 wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
shangtsung111 wrote:

if its astronomical true.but it may not be

 


Hi, I just woke up and the coffee isn't working yet. So I couldn't decipher what you were saying to me earlier but you seem to have got into a merry conversation with various people anyway.  Regarding the number of perfect games, if you define a perfect move as anything that doesn't lose, although other definitions could be used, then a perfect game is composed solely of moves by either side which don't lose. And if, let's say, on average, each side has only three perfect moves on each turn, then that gives, in a 50 move game, 3 to the power of 100 permutations of such moves or 3^100 perfect games. And according to the calculator, that is, let me see, it was 5.15e + 47 zeros as I recall. That's a lot of permutations and a lot of potentially perfect games.

I see you're Turkish. Which part of Turkey do you live in? In the late 60s to mid 70s I travelled to many regions of Turkey, except for the Lake Van region. Had a lot of friends there and still do have a few. Maybe one or two you've heard of. At one time I could speak a little Turkish, but not any more.

hi ,i agree with what MARattigan wrote.may be a few more moves than 10.
even made an analogy statement :"solution may be a one page book or a book as thick as a mountain 
meaning it maybe shorter than we expect ,or not."to a nice person who asked opinion.but an ulo (unudentified living objecct)irritated me
with nonsense hollow talks and accusations for  hours.thats why i wasnt in the mood to answer yyou before.
if youre still wondering,yes i live in turkey,izmir.i havvent been to van either.and i wish i could borrow your calm against such abusive people


I long ago stopped trying to work out which of Mr Rattigan's statements are meaningful.

I have a good friend near Izmir. One Ergin Toren. We lived together for a few months when we were students in Liverpool.

Avatar of Optimissed

Oh, I had a pizza in Izmir in 1973. One of those excellent Turkish pizzas that are not round but oblong. It's the only time I actually stayed in Izmir. I was on my way back from the South Coast, Kas, Fetiye and other places, hitchhiking mainly.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
shangtsung111 wrote:

hi ,i agree with what MARattigan wrote.may be a few more moves than 10.
even made an analogy statement :"solution may be a one page book or a book as thick as a mountain 
meaning it maybe shorter than we expect ,or not."to a nice person who asked opinion.but an ulo (unudentified living objecct)irritated me
with nonsense hollow talks and accusations for  hours.thats why i wasnt in the mood to answer yyou before.
if youre still wondering,yes i live in turkey,izmir.i havvent been to van either.and i wish i could borrow your calm against such abusive people

Try again.  I said your comment was absurd (which it was).  You took this personally, and replied twice to call my reply absurd, and it went from there with you doing the escalating.  You finishing by insulting me in Turkish...a rather craven maneuver.

Avatar of Optimissed
shangtsung111 wrote:

have you worked in turkey

No but visited quite a few times but not since 1976. I'd like to return some day.

Avatar of Optimissed
shangtsung111 wrote:

i would guess it tough.


I was older at the time. 1992, so I was 41. I think that helped because studying philosophy requires complete mental readjustment. Doing that at the same time as studying the thoughts of people from many years ago, who you probably disagree with or just partially agree with isn't easy for younger people who haven't worked out their own ideas. So I think being older helped me and I was quite good at it. I smoked cigars at the time and I used to judge the difficulty of any particular philosopher by the strength of the cigars I needed to smoke to stay calm and concentrate on the difficult passages they would write. I remember studying a passage by the Scottish Enlightenment philosopher David Hume. It took half an hour for me to read a paragraph, reading very slowly and going back and reading sentences again and again. Then after half an hour I felt I was inside the mind of this person from long ago, David Hume. I could read his works very quickly after that, with good understanding, and even understanding of why he wrote as he did and what he was really saying, which was rather different from what he pretended to say. But I can't understand Mr Rattigan because there's no consistency and probably no message! happy.png