Chess will never be solved, here's why

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TumoKonnin
Optimissed wrote:

No because I have no reason to respect you. Give me reasons you dislike my ideas and if I respect you after you do that, I'll write you some code.

uhhh wdym i dont dislike it im just saying yall could talk like regular people

DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:

In that case, either you don't understand research or you're dishonest. Wait, we know you're thick and we know you're dishonest.

Let me give you a hint. Enter the opposite from your belief into a search engine, look at what ALL the links are saying and try to criticise them honestly.

Then criticise the criticism you came up with.
Then do it the other way round.

I understand research quite a bit better than you do. Especially online. None of that matters. We're still left with the bald-faced reality: you claimed a million dead from lockdown measures, and cannot justify or support your claim in even the smallest degree.

You claimed you were a knowledgeable programmer, and even said you would like me to prove it if you weren't. When I asked some questions, you pretended the exchange never happened. You cannot justify or support your claim in even the smallest degree.

You claim that chess is a forced draw with perfect play. You cannot justify or support your claim in even the smallest degree.

You claim that some posters are alts of other posters and that they conspire against you. You cannot justify or support your claim in even the smallest degree.

Are you picking up on the pattern here?

TumoKonnin
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

In that case, either you don't understand research or you're dishonest. Wait, we know you're thick and we know you're dishonest.

Let me give you a hint. Enter the opposite from your belief into a search engine, look at what ALL the links are saying and try to criticise them honestly.

Then criticise the criticism you came up with.
Then do it the other way round.

I understand research quite a bit better than you do. Especially online. None of that matters. We're still left with the bald-faced reality: you claimed a million dead from lockdown measures, and cannot justify or support your claim in even the smallest degree.

You claimed you were a knowledgeable programmer, and even said you would like me to prove it if you weren't. When I asked some questions, you pretended the exchange never happened. You cannot justify or support your claim in even the smallest degree.

You claim that chess is a forced draw with perfect play. You cannot justify or support your claim in even the smallest degree.

You claim that some posters are alts of other posters and that they conspire against you. You cannot justify or support your claim in even the smallest degree.

Are you picking up on the pattern here?

it is widely believed that chess is a forced draw with perfect play as we know so far.

DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:

As for "get bent", you might be but I'm not that way inclined.

toddler.attitude++;

TumoKonnin
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

As for "get bent", you might be but I'm not that way inclined.

toddler.attitude++;

you do javascript?

DiogenesDue
TumoKonnin wrote:

it is widely believed that chess is a forced draw with perfect play as we know so far.

Yes, it is widely believed, not claimed as if proven. Thus the differing definitions of the words belief vs. claim.

TumoKonnin
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:

it is widely believed that chess is a forced draw with perfect play as we know so far.

Yes, it is widely believed, not claimed as if proven. Thus the differing definitions of the words belief vs. claim.

it actually has been proven with the engines we have. play a game of chess stockfish vs stockfish. it will eventually lead to a draw

DiogenesDue
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

As for "get bent", you might be but I'm not that way inclined.

toddler.attitude++;

you do javascript?

Not anymore, but that syntax works in several languages.

DiogenesDue
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:

it is widely believed that chess is a forced draw with perfect play as we know so far.

Yes, it is widely believed, not claimed as if proven. Thus the differing definitions of the words belief vs. claim.

it actually has been proven with the engines we have. play a game of chess stockfish vs stockfish. it will eventually lead to a draw

You probably ought to skim the previous 500+ pages before you start down this road.

TumoKonnin
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

As for "get bent", you might be but I'm not that way inclined.

toddler.attitude++;

you do javascript?

Not anymore, but that syntax works in several languages.

oh right c#, java, etc

TumoKonnin
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:

it is widely believed that chess is a forced draw with perfect play as we know so far.

Yes, it is widely believed, not claimed as if proven. Thus the differing definitions of the words belief vs. claim.

it actually has been proven with the engines we have. play a game of chess stockfish vs stockfish. it will eventually lead to a draw

You probably ought to skim the previous 500+ pages before you start down this road.

no thanks 🙏💀

TumoKonnin
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:

it is widely believed that chess is a forced draw with perfect play as we know so far.

Yes, it is widely believed, not claimed as if proven. Thus the differing definitions of the words belief vs. claim.

it actually has been proven with the engines we have. play a game of chess stockfish vs stockfish. it will eventually lead to a draw

You probably ought to skim the previous 500+ pages before you start down this road.

do tell what on earth happened while i was gone, and how yall started arguing

DiogenesDue
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:

it is widely believed that chess is a forced draw with perfect play as we know so far.

Yes, it is widely believed, not claimed as if proven. Thus the differing definitions of the words belief vs. claim.

it actually has been proven with the engines we have. play a game of chess stockfish vs stockfish. it will eventually lead to a draw

You probably ought to skim the previous 500+ pages before you start down this road.

do tell what on earth happened while i was gone, and how yall started arguing

That you can read on your own...I am talking about making statements like "chess is a proven draw because Stockfish draws itself".

TumoKonnin
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:

it is widely believed that chess is a forced draw with perfect play as we know so far.

Yes, it is widely believed, not claimed as if proven. Thus the differing definitions of the words belief vs. claim.

it actually has been proven with the engines we have. play a game of chess stockfish vs stockfish. it will eventually lead to a draw

You probably ought to skim the previous 500+ pages before you start down this road.

do tell what on earth happened while i was gone, and how yall started arguing

That you can read on your own...I am talking about making statements like "chess is a proven draw because Stockfish draws itself".

i say stockfish because it is the strongest thing we can get

Moonflux
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:

it is widely believed that chess is a forced draw with perfect play as we know so far.

Yes, it is widely believed, not claimed as if proven. Thus the differing definitions of the words belief vs. claim.

it actually has been proven with the engines we have. play a game of chess stockfish vs stockfish. it will eventually lead to a draw

You probably ought to skim the previous 500+ pages before you start down this road.

do tell what on earth happened while i was gone, and how yall started arguing

That you can read on your own...I am talking about making statements like "chess is a proven draw because Stockfish draws itself".

i say stockfish because it is the strongest thing we can get

It's one of the strongest engines, currently, but it's not the perfect chess player.

The argument could easily be made that it simply can't convert the advantage white starts with effectively enough.

DiogenesDue
TumoKonnin wrote:

i say stockfish because it is the strongest thing we can get

And a stronger version of it comes out frequently, underscoring the fact that is it imperfect and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

TumoKonnin
Moonflux wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:

it is widely believed that chess is a forced draw with perfect play as we know so far.

Yes, it is widely believed, not claimed as if proven. Thus the differing definitions of the words belief vs. claim.

it actually has been proven with the engines we have. play a game of chess stockfish vs stockfish. it will eventually lead to a draw

You probably ought to skim the previous 500+ pages before you start down this road.

do tell what on earth happened while i was gone, and how yall started arguing

That you can read on your own...I am talking about making statements like "chess is a proven draw because Stockfish draws itself".

i say stockfish because it is the strongest thing we can get

It's one of the strongest engines, currently, but it's not the perfect chess player.

The argument could easily be made that it simply can't convert the advantage white starts with effectively enough.

yes that is why i said it's the strongest we can get, so, what i said a page ago, SO FAR, chess is a draw with perfect play

Moonflux
TumoKonnin wrote:
Moonflux wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:

it is widely believed that chess is a forced draw with perfect play as we know so far.

Yes, it is widely believed, not claimed as if proven. Thus the differing definitions of the words belief vs. claim.

it actually has been proven with the engines we have. play a game of chess stockfish vs stockfish. it will eventually lead to a draw

You probably ought to skim the previous 500+ pages before you start down this road.

do tell what on earth happened while i was gone, and how yall started arguing

That you can read on your own...I am talking about making statements like "chess is a proven draw because Stockfish draws itself".

i say stockfish because it is the strongest thing we can get

It's one of the strongest engines, currently, but it's not the perfect chess player.

The argument could easily be made that it simply can't convert the advantage white starts with effectively enough.

yes that is why i said it's the strongest we can get, so, what i said a page ago, SO FAR, chess is a draw with perfect play

Two things:

One: Stockfish isn't the strongest we can get. It's the strongest that currently exists, and stronger versions will continue to be released.

Two: Stockfish isn't perfect play; you can't say that chess is a draw with perfect play because the current strongest engine draws against itself. You can only say that once an engine that does play perfectly exists, if it draws against itself.

TumoKonnin
Moonflux wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:
Moonflux wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:

it is widely believed that chess is a forced draw with perfect play as we know so far.

Yes, it is widely believed, not claimed as if proven. Thus the differing definitions of the words belief vs. claim.

it actually has been proven with the engines we have. play a game of chess stockfish vs stockfish. it will eventually lead to a draw

You probably ought to skim the previous 500+ pages before you start down this road.

do tell what on earth happened while i was gone, and how yall started arguing

That you can read on your own...I am talking about making statements like "chess is a proven draw because Stockfish draws itself".

i say stockfish because it is the strongest thing we can get

It's one of the strongest engines, currently, but it's not the perfect chess player.

The argument could easily be made that it simply can't convert the advantage white starts with effectively enough.

yes that is why i said it's the strongest we can get, so, what i said a page ago, SO FAR, chess is a draw with perfect play

Two things:

One: Stockfish isn't the strongest we can get. It's the strongest that currently exists, and stronger versions will continue to be released.

Two: Stockfish isn't perfect play; you can't say that chess is a draw with perfect play because the current strongest engine draws against itself. You can only say that once an engine that does play perfectly exists, if it draws against itself.

that is why i said "so far"

Moonflux
TumoKonnin wrote:
Moonflux wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:
Moonflux wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
TumoKonnin wrote:

it is widely believed that chess is a forced draw with perfect play as we know so far.

Yes, it is widely believed, not claimed as if proven. Thus the differing definitions of the words belief vs. claim.

it actually has been proven with the engines we have. play a game of chess stockfish vs stockfish. it will eventually lead to a draw

You probably ought to skim the previous 500+ pages before you start down this road.

do tell what on earth happened while i was gone, and how yall started arguing

That you can read on your own...I am talking about making statements like "chess is a proven draw because Stockfish draws itself".

i say stockfish because it is the strongest thing we can get

It's one of the strongest engines, currently, but it's not the perfect chess player.

The argument could easily be made that it simply can't convert the advantage white starts with effectively enough.

yes that is why i said it's the strongest we can get, so, what i said a page ago, SO FAR, chess is a draw with perfect play

Two things:

One: Stockfish isn't the strongest we can get. It's the strongest that currently exists, and stronger versions will continue to be released.

Two: Stockfish isn't perfect play; you can't say that chess is a draw with perfect play because the current strongest engine draws against itself. You can only say that once an engine that does play perfectly exists, if it draws against itself.

that is why i said so far

You said "it actually has been proven with the engines we have. play a game of chess stockfish vs stockfish. it will eventually lead to a draw".

I am saying that isn't a proof, because Stockfish doesn't play chess perfectly and thus cannot be used to judge perfect chess.