Chicago Open

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Arctor
Reb wrote:
Arctor wrote:
Reb wrote:

uschess.org shows you dont have a single win against players over 1800 and nothing but losses against players over 2100 so why would you even consider playing in a section for players between 2100-2299 ?!  You would very likely lose all your games in this section .


 Are you saying you wouldn't jump at the chance to play against 2700+ players?


With the expense involved in US tournies I would not jump at the chance to play with 2700 players. I have lost every game I ever played with 2600 so I am sure the result would be the same with 2700s . I would want to have the chance to be competitive .


 Well those of us who don't feel we've peaked just yet relish the opportunity to learn a thing or two from stronger players

TheOldReb
Arctor wrote:
Reb wrote:
Arctor wrote:
Reb wrote:

uschess.org shows you dont have a single win against players over 1800 and nothing but losses against players over 2100 so why would you even consider playing in a section for players between 2100-2299 ?!  You would very likely lose all your games in this section .


 Are you saying you wouldn't jump at the chance to play against 2700+ players?


With the expense involved in US tournies I would not jump at the chance to play with 2700 players. I have lost every game I ever played with 2600 so I am sure the result would be the same with 2700s . I would want to have the chance to be competitive .


 Well those of us who don't feel we've peaked just yet relish the opportunity to learn a thing or two from stronger players


I can learn just fine from stronger players that are 2300-2500 .... to play with 2700s would be humiliating and I would be likely to learn less from them than from say 2400-2500 . To learn/grow in chess its good to play stronger players , like maybe a class higher but once they are two classes higher and more its rather ridiculous really. 

TheOldReb
chessisgood wrote:

I'm pretty sure that I have decided to play in the u2300 section. Here is my reasoning: if I do poorly in the u1900 section, I will probably lose rating points and be disappointed; however, by playing in the u2300, I can lose every game and not feel badly about it, and if I do win a game, it will be an amazing accomplishment. Plus, its FIDE rated, so if I can somehow get my rating to 2100, then I will qualify for the ACO World Youth Tournament. Does this sound like solid reasoning? I don't plan on winning u1900 because of the sandbaggers, so prize-winnings should be no object.


I think you are being overly optimistic given your results. You have never beaten anyone over 1800 so why do you think you might beat someone 2100 or higher ? Also, your games will only be FIDE rated if you play a minimum ( I believe its 3 now ) of fide rated players and if you lose all those games they wont count at all. You are hoping to beat players 2 classes above you , this would be like me hoping to beat GMs over 2600...... which I have never done btw. Go to uschess.org and look at your game statistics , you score less than 40% against 1700s and less than 12 % against 1800s ..... 

ChessisGood
Reb wrote:
chessisgood wrote:

I'm pretty sure that I have decided to play in the u2300 section. Here is my reasoning: if I do poorly in the u1900 section, I will probably lose rating points and be disappointed; however, by playing in the u2300, I can lose every game and not feel badly about it, and if I do win a game, it will be an amazing accomplishment. Plus, its FIDE rated, so if I can somehow get my rating to 2100, then I will qualify for the ACO World Youth Tournament. Does this sound like solid reasoning? I don't plan on winning u1900 because of the sandbaggers, so prize-winnings should be no object.


I think you are being overly optimistic given your results. You have never beaten anyone over 1800 so why do you think you might beat someone 2100 or higher ? Also, your games will only be FIDE rated if you play a minimum ( I believe its 3 now ) of fide rated players and if you lose all those games they wont count at all. You are hoping to beat players 2 classes above you , this would be like me hoping to beat GMs over 2600...... which I have never done btw. Go to uschess.org and look at your game statistics , you score less than 40% against 1700s and less than 12 % against 1800s ..... 


Of course, I see I don't have much hope, but I can always try. So long as I am determined to reach a certain goal, I will play well and gain experience.

TheOldReb

Good luck to you !  If you play much otb chess in TN I assume you know Todd Andrews and Ron Burnett ? 

ChessisGood
[COMMENT DELETED]
Arctor
Reb wrote:
Arctor wrote:
Reb wrote:
Arctor wrote:
Reb wrote:

uschess.org shows you dont have a single win against players over 1800 and nothing but losses against players over 2100 so why would you even consider playing in a section for players between 2100-2299 ?!  You would very likely lose all your games in this section .


 Are you saying you wouldn't jump at the chance to play against 2700+ players?


With the expense involved in US tournies I would not jump at the chance to play with 2700 players. I have lost every game I ever played with 2600 so I am sure the result would be the same with 2700s . I would want to have the chance to be competitive .


 Well those of us who don't feel we've peaked just yet relish the opportunity to learn a thing or two from stronger players


I can learn just fine from stronger players that are 2300-2500 .... to play with 2700s would be humiliating and I would be likely to learn less from them than from say 2400-2500 . To learn/grow in chess its good to play stronger players , like maybe a class higher but once they are two classes higher and more its rather ridiculous really.


 Nonsense. If one can learn from studying the games of Morphy, Fischer, Kasparov et al, then one can certainly pick up a thing or two from playing against some run-of-the-mill 2200

ChessisGood
Arctor wrote:
Reb wrote:
Arctor wrote:
Reb wrote:
Arctor wrote:
Reb wrote:

uschess.org shows you dont have a single win against players over 1800 and nothing but losses against players over 2100 so why would you even consider playing in a section for players between 2100-2299 ?!  You would very likely lose all your games in this section .


 Are you saying you wouldn't jump at the chance to play against 2700+ players?


With the expense involved in US tournies I would not jump at the chance to play with 2700 players. I have lost every game I ever played with 2600 so I am sure the result would be the same with 2700s . I would want to have the chance to be competitive .


 Well those of us who don't feel we've peaked just yet relish the opportunity to learn a thing or two from stronger players


I can learn just fine from stronger players that are 2300-2500 .... to play with 2700s would be humiliating and I would be likely to learn less from them than from say 2400-2500 . To learn/grow in chess its good to play stronger players , like maybe a class higher but once they are two classes higher and more its rather ridiculous really.


 Nonsense. If one can learn from studying the games of Morphy, Fischer, Kasparov et al, then one can certainly pick up a thing or two from playing against some run-of-the-mill 2200


That was my reasoning. Reb seems to disagree.

bigyugi9

reb is quite right.  Chicago Open is such a strong event...I suggest you go to the u1900.

TheOldReb

If you arent even scoring 50% with run of the mill 1700s it seems suicidal to enter a section for players over 2100 . You can learn fine from 1800s to 2000 if you are still a B class player. A 1700 is not likely to learn much from a 2200 , especially if that 2200 isnt willing to do a post game analysis with him and when the rating difference is great the higher rateds are often not willing to do post mortems. I believe you learn best from stronger players that arent more than one class stronger. If the stronger player is too much stronger he might not help you understand why you lost and even if he did you might not understand his explanations as his understanding/knowledge is on such a higher level than yours/mine.  Kasparov was once asked why he talked so much with Karpov even back when they were always fighting for the WC and his reply was that only Karpov could discuss and understand chess on the same level with him.... 

Dark--Horse

I say go in for U2300 if you want to. In my experience if you lose the first 3 or 4 games, then you meet other people who are playing up, and stronger players who are having a bad tournament, so you could probably expect to get 1 or 2 points. Although it might be different in the usa to england. Have you looked at the list of people that have entered the U2300 to see how many there are below 2000? (that's where most of your chances will lie)

beardogjones

The opening position is always the same - don't worry about dumb rating

points.

TheOldReb
beardogjones wrote:

The opening position is always the same - don't worry about dumb rating

points.


This is obviously a person with very little, or no, tournament experience. 

kwaloffer

I think that for chess improvement it is best to play opponents ~100 points above you - basically at the level you're aiming for in the short term. The U1900 sounds perfect for you.

Joost_NL

Almost every sensible thing has already been said by Reb, but I want to add one little thing. You seem to think that you have nothing to lose if you much higher rated players. This is simply not true. 

 

Last year I (rated 1778 FIDE) played an incredibly strong tournament in Cappele-la-Grande (600 participants, 100 GM's). I won the first couple of games and then made a draw against an WIM. The 4 rounds afterward I played against 2200+ players only, including 3 masters. I lost all those games without having a chance, or even understanding why I lost. For me, this was very bad for my motivation. Sure it was fun to experience playing a stronger opponent, but they played very slow moves, slowly pushing me away. Not fun games, had no chance and didn't learn much from them. Their attitude was: 'He is 600 point lower rated, I won't play any sharp moves, improve my pieces a little bit and let him make a mistake'. Looking back on it, the only reason I drew the WIM was because I had done some good opening preparation and basically got a drawn position out of the opening, no specifically good play involved. This year I almost decided not to go to that tournament because I want to play players in the 1700-1900 range, not the 2100-2400 range. Much more instructive, much more fun, a lot better for (my) motivation.

ChessisGood

Well...I think I would be a lot more than happy if I drew a WIM.

DrSpudnik

Joost makes a good point I didn't think of: I know an IM who, when playing someone he knows he will squash, will try to make a little personal mental game out of it by deciding to not move any but his e & d pawns or not moving his QR or trading off his bishops for his opponent's knights...etc. You might entertain yourself by going down the drain but they're just going to toy with you and it won't be anything earth shattering.

In all the years I've known him, I only drew one 10-minute game, probably because he had been drinking and wasn't taking the game so seriously.

At this point, I really just want you to post your results after it's all over.

ChessisGood

Ok, will do.

Joost_NL
chessisgood wrote:

Well...I think I would be a lot more than happy if I drew a WIM.


Sure... Getting that one result feels good, the rest of the tournament doesn't feel that good at all. Winning against an 1900 feels good as well and is much more realistic, and still chances are not so great to do that. Don't know what a USCF rating is worth and whether your correspondence rating here on this site is accurate, but it seems to me that you would benefit more from playing against 1900's or lower.

 

Anyway, it seems that your mind is set. I wish you good luck and sincerely hope that you have a great tournament. Just do me one little favor: don't ask for advice if you're gonna ignore it anyway. ;)

 

Edit: @chessisgood: can you please explain why getting a FIDE rating is important to you? I read something about qualifying for a WC if it's 2100+. No offense but that doesn't seem very likely (yet!) in your case. Are there other benefits?

AllenGamble

I think that you should join the section you have the best chance of doing well in. In my school chess club I regularly play USCF 1800-1900's. I lose probably 3/5 times and either draw or win the other 2/5 times. When I lose it is very easy to understand when I lost the game. Then a few months ago I played my coach (2200 USCF) and got destroyed not knowing where I went wrong. The same thing happened when I played an NM in a high school tournament. Just play your section and by learning from those games you will be better prepared for harder opponents in future tournaments.