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coaches yes or no?

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913Glorax12
woton wrote:
913Glorax12 wrote:

Have you actually looked hard enough? Not all chess clubs are at "Starbucks" or have a sign displaying it's location

Yes.  I contacted a local coach (juniors only), who has a USCF expert rating and knows a few local players.  He tried to organize one.  It lasted a couple of years and disbanded.  I play in "local" tournaments (a minimum of 100 miles away) and no-one from my area plays in them.  I do periodically hear of a club (either from other tournament players or from USCF and State Association listings), but I find that the club is either defunct or similar to the one that plays at Arbys.

There just isn't a lot of interest in chess in my area.  Hence, no clubs.
 

Ok, seems like you area has no active club. :)

However, it is not like that every where and I am sad to hear that you got the short straw Frown

VLaurenT
isauro2013 wrote:
 

Could you share more about your experience?

After all you have made 5 years, with coaches which is quite a lot.

At what rating (FIDE or your federation) did you begin to use the coach?

How many hours a week or a month?

From what I understand, but please correct me:

1. You didn't have a goal as rating. For example you told the GM or IM training you: I'm 1900, I'd like to reach 2100 under your guidance in 2 years.

2. You didn't have homework (maybe because as adult you were too busy with work, family etc.)

3. How did you measure your progress? Because I understand the idea "they changed my vision of chess..." but also a book could do that (or a dvd, chessbase has so many...), and maybe doesn't cost 50-60 dollars hour. In my opinion, and maybe I'm wrong, the work with a coach should be more focused and personalized than a book.

Yes,

When I started working with Artiom Tsepotian, I think my rating was around ~2030 FIDE and it was one year after my first son was born (I have 3 now).

I had nothing against improving a little (actually I was hoping to reach 2100 elo), but I was also interested in analyzing with a strong player, as it has always been a part of chess I'm very fond of, and there was no very strong player I could analyze with at my club.

I took lessons on a irregular basis, but I think it was like ~20hrs per year.

Artiom did give homework (6 difficult positions/session), and Nigel gives some too, although it isn't labelled this way (the UK style of coaching is much more relaxed than the Ukrainian, which really looks like school Smile)

Ultimately, I measure my progress through rating, so it's isn't a success, as I'm more or less where I was 5 years ago. I think I've learned a lot about the game, but at the same time, my playing skills have diminished, because of my environment and probably because of age too : I don't play a lot of competitive games, I'm more tired and have less energy than 5 years ago.

So, coaching can never be a guarantee of success : you still need to play a lot, work a lot, and have enough energy to fight on the chessboard.

I see you are already a good player (USCF 1800+), so you'll probably need to invest quite some time to get to the next level. If you're still young (in chess it's under 35), then you can probably benefit a lot from a coach.

As for hourly fees, 50-60$/hr. is quite pricey. Artiom was 30$/hr and Nigel is ~40$

Ronnee

A coach is a coach .........How many do you need ...keep on changing ? Its like having a Tutor ...........some are good ...some bad , How many pupils do these have ?   Who remembers that CHESS MOVIE where the teacher loved chess so much that in his spare time he taught ALL his PUPILS CHESS and entered them in tournaments. They excelled in their acedemic studies  and became great chess players.  We NEED CLASSES and teachers not coaches. This teacher was not paid for teaching chess he did it for love. ( THis was in America....true story  )  One very young player was a winning star.  Perhaps TAFE can do a course and you can repeat it as many times you like after a one fee payment. It needs to be active learning not passive 

rtr1129
hicetnunc wrote:

As for hourly fees, 50-60$/hr. is quite pricey. Artiom was 30$/hr and Nigel is ~40$

And GM Alejandro Ramirez is $100/hr, wow.

rtr1129
hicetnunc wrote:

I think I've learned a lot about the game, but at the same time, my playing skills have diminished, because of my environment and probably because of age too : I don't play a lot of competitive games, I'm more tired and have less energy than 5 years ago.

So, nature or nurture? On the few occassions when I have been "family free" for a couple of days, I am amazed at how much different life is. I get plenty of rest. I get massive amounts of work done, both job work and hobby work. When real life returns, I feel like I have a few hours of decent mental energy in the morning, and by 2:00pm I am just hoping for a nap.

kleelof
rtr1129 wrote:
hicetnunc wrote:

I think I've learned a lot about the game, but at the same time, my playing skills have diminished, because of my environment and probably because of age too : I don't play a lot of competitive games, I'm more tired and have less energy than 5 years ago.

So, nature or nurture? On the few occassions when I have been "family free" for a couple of days, I am amazed at how much different life is. I get plenty of rest. I get massive amounts of work done, both job work and hobby work. When real life returns, I feel like I have a few hours of decent mental energy in the morning, and by 2:00pm I am just hoping for a nap.

I know the feeling. Which do you like better?Laughing

sisu
hicetnunc wrote:I've worked with IM Artiom Tsepotian from Ukraine (2 years) and GM Nigel Davies from the UK (~3 years). They never gave me a program to eliminate my weaknesses, but pointed out a lot of them and changed my vision of chess.

I can recommend them, as well as some others I had limited interaction with : IM Thomas Bartell, IM Zdenko Stupavsky and IM Pancevski.

I don't think I can realistically aim for a title because of my age and various commitments. I just don't have the time to play enough OTB chess. Still, I've always enjoyed the interaction with these excellent players, and I'm happy to develop and learn.

You have an awesome love for the game, a true chess player. Cool

rtr1129 wrote:
hicetnunc wrote:

As for hourly fees, 50-60$/hr. is quite pricey. Artiom was 30$/hr and Nigel is ~40$

And GM Alejandro Ramirez is $100/hr, wow.

Take it or leave it Smile. Garry costs over $10000 per GB Laughing. This is the interesting thing, very smart people know how to find the best coaches for their needs, like Laurent, above. But a lot of people don't know how to find the right coach. They are thinking should I rely on "titles, ratings, marketing, language barrier, proximity to myself, history, price?" and then are confused. Then most of them don't get a coach Smile. But like Alexei Shirov said earlier this week, the most important opponent to contest is yourself.

So my advice is: try some coaches, try things. Costs only a little. Do two sessions with Ramirez, two sessions with Davies, or whoever. You don't know until you try.

Another of life's lessons: put yourself in the other person's shoes. Why does Ramirez charge $100 per hour, or Mikhalevski $70?

I would say it is because they don't have the time to teach everyone, so they charge a high price and if someone meets it, then they have the time. I charge $32 per hour, but offer a discount for 2 hour sessions. How much do you earn per hour in your job?

As a side note, it must be said that I've never had a chess coach. But I've spent the good part of 15 years meandering with this game to get my skillset. Without doubt if I had the resources and coaches, then I would have been a stronger player. So choose wisely what your action plan will be. Smile

isauro2013

However, I just checked Nigel Davies site (which doesn't seem completely operative) and the price of a lesson, if one is accepted as student, is 42-50 pounds, which is 70 dollars or more. Maybe the 40 dollars price was some time ago.

Another friend likes very much IM Lilov, because he gives homework, but also video analysis of the games one play. So one can listen it over and over.

rtr1129
sisu wrote:

Take it or leave it . Garry costs over $10000 per GB . This is the interesting thing, very smart people know how to find the best coaches for their needs, like Laurent, above. But a lot of people don't know how to find the right coach. They are thinking should I rely on "titles, ratings, marketing, language barrier, proximity to myself, history, price?" and then are confused. Then most of them don't get a coach . But like Alexei Shirov said earlier this week, the most important opponent to contest is yourself.

So my advice is: try some coaches, try things. Costs only a little. Do two sessions with Ramirez, two sessions with Davies, or whoever. You don't know until you try.

Another of life's lessons: put yourself in the other person's shoes. Why does Ramirez charge $100 per hour, or Mikhalevski $70?

I would say it is because they don't have the time to teach everyone, so they charge a high price and if someone meets it, then they have the time. I charge $32 per hour, but offer a discount for 2 hour sessions. How much do you earn per hour in your job?

You are right. I was not trying to say $100/hr is too high. In fact, I had already decided, when (if?) I have time, I will work with GM Ramirez. I was more surprised that a popular name like GM Davies charges so little.

I work with many small and medium businesses, and I see that the good ones pay a higher price to get a good value in return, while the businesses that limp along make most decisions based on lowest cost.

To me, if someone is going to invest significant time to serious chess study, they are crazy not to hire a coach. If someone is going to spend 10 hours per week or more, that is a lot of time, and without a coach they are very likely wasting 9 hours per week. Their chess would be better off if they slept an extra 9 hours per week. Everyone says they can't afford it, but if they were serious, they would get a part time job for 10 hours per week, work with a GM for an hour per week, and study for 4 hours per week. They would make more progress than if they study on their own for 15 hours per week, studying the wrong things and never identifying or correcting any weaknesses.

sisu
rtr1129 wrote:

Everyone says they can't afford it, but if they were serious, they would get a part time job for 10 hours per week, work with a GM for an hour per week, and study for 4 hours per week. They would make more progress than if they study on their own for 15 hours per week, studying the wrong things and never identifying or correcting any weaknesses.

So true. Maybe us chess coaches need to provide the budgeting tips also for improving students :)

rtr1129
sisu wrote:

So true. Maybe us chess coaches need to provide the budgeting tips also for improving students :)

I think it just says most people are not that serious Smile

VLaurenT
isauro2013 wrote:

However, I just checked Nigel Davies site (which doesn't seem completely operative) and the price of a lesson, if one is accepted as student, is 42-50 pounds, which is 70 dollars or more. Maybe the 40 dollars price was some time ago.

Another friend likes very much IM Lilov, because he gives homework, but also video analysis of the games one play. So one can listen it over and over.

Does Lilov's video recording includes interaction with the student, or is he is only reviewing the game and posting it ?

And yes, it looks like I still benefits from Davies' 2011 pricing Smile

Loch-and-Quay

I'd definitely recommend getting a coach. Its helped my game no-end. @thebutcher is my recommendation for sure!

kindaspongey

Has isauro2013 been here since 2014?