Database Use is Unfair

part of playing chess for reals is having a strong memory .... using a database eliminates one of the most difficult aspects of the game and renders it worthless

people thatreally wanting to get better at chess are best eschewing database for palying games and to use it instead to build repertoires and studying

it does nothing to help anyone improve for actual chess encounters with live human beings, and likely cripples one to some degree in this regard 

the main reason dbs are allowed is that is is impossible to stop people from using them 

part of playing chess for reals is having a strong memory .... using a database eliminates one of the most difficult aspects of the game and renders it worthless

i think because they like the illusion that 'live' chess mimics otb

its all about perceptions   

Ziryab, sorry I am not following your argument in this thread. I am finding statements contradictory. I read you saying using databases is unfair, and then read you saying how great they are for research whilst playing correspondence chess. Please help me see what I am missing here? 

i am also against the use of databases.  i will never use a database in an online chess game

I feel forced to use them when they are legal and my opponents are using them,  because technically I am playing against Masters, and what chance have I got against Masters to have a "FAIR" game?! Once we're into the middle game that's when the fun really begins. I now have memorised a lot of the database moves.

But I would be much happier if database moves were illegal in rated games and I was playing mind v mind. A game dependent on own calculations and what has been learned by research/study.

I feel forced to use them when they are legal and my opponents are using them,  because technically I am playing against Masters, and what chance have I got against Masters to have a "FAIR" game?! Once we're into the middle game that's when the fun really begins. I now have memorised a lot of the database moves.

But I would be much happier if database moves were illegal in rated games and I was playing mind v mind. A game dependent on own calculations and what has been learned by research/study.

You should just stick with chess 960.

Why couldn't you study your favourite openings in unrated games if they were banned for using them during rated games only?

Because I have other rated games that are in that opening.

I don't mean now, I mean IF databases become illegal, why couldn't you study your favourite openings in unrated games. Create as many as you like to practice/learn/study from. And then play your rated games based on what you've learned so far, just like you would in any OTB game. Why would ALL of your games need to be rated.. because the actual rating is the most important thing to you? 

If databases became illegal in rated games but not illegal in unrated games, then wouldn't that just make a lot of players start to play a lot more unrated games to study/learn from, honest players who do respect rules here, and therefore give everyone the opportunity to play a lot more unrated games and allow that learning opportunity to continue?

And I know not everyone will respect the rules. Just like everyone doesn't respect the rules now with chess engines and cheat. But there are a lot of people who do respect the rules in regards to not cheating, and hence those people would respect any new rules in regards to when one can and can't use databases here.

Also, why divide playing and learning into separate endeavors? Even OTB I am allowed to study my opponent's favorite openings right up until the game starts. I can use something I learned one minute ago against him.

Exactly, right up until the game starts.

That's how it should be with online chess too, for rated games. 

And I think it's ok for unrated and not ok for rated, because the latter should give a true reflection on our chess ability without assistance, so that there is a clear understanding by everyone of what each player's ability really is so we can match up against players in our own league, if we choose to. When there is no rating showing then we will have no idea which players would be almost at Master level and which players have a lack of deep knowledge of the game. So we wouldn't know who to play without analysing their games. That's not ideal.

There is no "without assistance". If I recall a tactic I saw in a book and win with it, I was still assisted.

Nah, as you had no assistance to help you "recall" that tactic. 

The old tradition of using research to jocky for positional advantage in corresondence chess, which grew into massive database use in turn-based chess, is unfair. It is especially so to newbs who never mailed a postcard with "1.P-KB3, if any, 2.KB2." These newbs want to play chess as if it is a game for real men who revel in thier own masculinity instead of the sissy skills of trying to become smarter through study.

What can we do about a playing field that unfairly tilts towards eggheads and bores and others who want to be smarter than their ancestors?