............Disappointed

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Fayez58

If lan can't win with a 1 point advantage, then he don't deserved to be World Champion. Magnus is going to keep that title

ninjaswat

Lmao try it yourself lol

M1m1c15
*Ian
DasBurner

ok

Lightning

Conversely, if you are able to get a 1 point advantage against Magnus Carlson, you have a reasonable chance to win the match potentially and become World Champion

Arnaut10

I agree. Im fan of Magnus but I felt bad for Ian while watching the game. I think this was closest he will get to win and he didnt take his chance. What was c3?

Chessking4640
Lightning wrote:

Conversely, if you are able to get a 1 point advantage against Magnus Carlson, you have a reasonable chance to win the match potentially and become World Champion

id like to see anyone do any better

 

nklristic
Arnaut10 wrote:

I agree. Im fan of Magnus but I felt bad for Ian while watching the game. I think this was closest he will get to win and he didnt take his chance. What was c3?

Karlsen je potencijalno imao neku ideju da odigra Bxh7+, Pa Qh5+ i onda Rd4 sto je jako nezgodno za crnog. c3 to sprecava jer je taj plan prespor i crni bi promovisao kraljicu do tada i dobio. Iskreno mislio sam da ce Karlsen posle c3 zato da odigra Nxb5 pa Nxc3. Opet engine kaze da je posle Nxb5 pa Nxc3 crni na -1, tj. i dalje nesto bolji.

Engine sa chess.com je zapravo malo zbunjen ovde jer prikazuje da je najbolje da uzme crni odigra bxa4, ali ako beli sad zrtvuje lovca, prikazuje skoro pa egal -0.7 (nije dovoljno dobar ovaj engine na sajtu, tj dubina). Tj. c3 je zapravo verovatno egal ili bolji potez od bxa4.

Prikazuje takodje da je Qe7 verovatno najbolji nacin da se izbegne ta zrtva (gledao sam i Gothamchess klip, detaljnije je objasnio zasto, prikazao je celu liniju), ali pozicija je objektivno veoma komplikovana. Recimo, enginu se svidja i g6 ovde, sto daje mozda jos bolje polje za belog konja, pa je to tesko da se igra.

Cak i da je Jan igrao bolje ovde umesto c3, pitanje je da li bi uspeo da dobije.


Meni je malo cudno da Magnus ovoliko rizikuje danas. Bukvalno je dozvolio gubitak razmene, kad je mogao da razmeni konje, iz nekog razloga je tako cenio poziciju... I u jucerasnjoj partiji je dao pesaka na startu, doduse uz manje vise punu kompenzaciju.


Po meni vrlo dinamicne partije, ocekivao sam vise igru na sigurno zbog vaznosti, ali moguce je da ce biti takve partije na kraju, ako ne bude bilo pobeda uskoro.

Arnaut10

#8 zahvaljujem se na tako detaljnom odgovoru prije svega! I ja sam pregledala video od gothamchess-a i napad poslije žrtve lovca bi stvarno bilo teško zaustaviti, ali zar je c3 stvarno bio najbolji pokušaj? Čak su i komentatori tokom prijenosa pokazali drugu liniju gdje bijeli napada, ne mogu se sad tačno sjetiti poteza ali znam da svi pješaci padnu pa čak i onaj na e6 a kralj bude potpuno otvoren i bijeli ima najmanje osiguran remi ponavljanjem pozicije. Partija je svakako bila komplikovana i veoma teška za dobijanje neke velike prednosti/sigurne pobjede. Pozicija može biti najjednostavniji remi a mašina može pokazati prednost za jednu stranu zbog pješaka više. U razgovoru nakon partije Jan je rekao da je c3 bio interesantan način da zaustavi mat. Nadam se da sam koristila dobru terminologiju, jer slabo znam na našem jeziku šahovske pojmove. Skoro sve što pratim i radim vezano za šah je na engleskom osim par partija tu i tamo sa djedom pa me on ponekad nauči štošta. Koje je tvoje mišljenje, hoće li Jan dobiti bolju priliku i biti bliže pobjedi, pa ova propuštena šansa nije baš toliko velika kao što se meni čini. I ako imaš kakvu preporuku za neki sadržaj na našem jeziku rado bih pogledala/pročitala da malo učim i iz tih izvora :)

Arnaut10

Gubitak razmjene je bio skoro pa neizbježan jer i razmjena konja bi dala bolju poziciju crnom, ali opet materijal ostaje isti. Ovako je dobio izjednačenu poziciju sa snažnim konjem na d6 protiv pasivnijeg topa. Poslije partije je rekao da su mu zapravo ta ideja i potez promakli i da nije planirao toliko žrtvovati kao što se desilo. Ne znam šta da kažem, to mu je bila priprema i možda čak i strategija za preostale susrete. Da uz malu žrtvu dobije dominantniju poziciju, ako Jan ne bude pronašao najbolji način kako igrati protiv toga možda mu se i isplati :)

nklristic

I ja uglavnom na engleskom ucim, sigurno ima knjiga na nasem, ima i par YouTube kanala, ali ih ne pratim previse.

c3 svakako nije bio najbolji pokusaj, verobvatno je nesto nepreciznije, ali opet tesko je da se igraju kompjuterski potezi. Plus razmisljao je oko 10 minuta barem, sigurno nema ni vremena da provede kao Griscuk  sat vremena na tom potezu. grin.png Jan je naravno imao prednost i jeste dosta lepa sansa, na tom nivou je to solidno, ali opet, pitanje je da li je dosta za pobedu, ako beli odigra savrseno.  Bukvalno jedan malo manje precizan potez i dodje se do 0.00. Sa druge strane nepreciznost belog bi znacila manje vise izgubljenu poziciju.

Recimo jucerasnja partija sa zrtvom pesaka, ja sam imao poziciju slicnu koju je imao Jan juce, isto je crni zrtvovao pesaka tako sto je hteo da uzme lovacki par. Razlika je sto sam ja vec imao c3 odigrano, bilo je za trunku drugacije. Sa pesakom vise bio sam vrlo brzo razbijen. Naravno ovo je druga dimenzija, ali ocigledno da je Magnus usao malo ostrije ovde. Moguce da je to zato sto je sa Karuanom znao da dobija polubrzopoteznu sekciju, a ovde je moguce da smatra da mu je veca verovatnoca da dobije klasicni deo i da ne zeli da ide u razigravanje posle. Po meni odlicno, jer moguce da ce biti zanimljivih partija jos. Naravno ako posle 10 partija bude egal, obnda je moguce da ce odigrati na sigurnije remije.

Ko zna za sansu, Magnus igra cini mi se rizicnije, tako da me ne bi cudilo (ako se tako nastavi) da iz neke nove komplikovane pozicije neko napravi vecu gresku i izgubi. Dovoljno je recimo bilo da iz one lepe pozicije Jan odigra pod pritiskom potencijalnog napada nesto dosta losije u onoj poziciji i cak izgubi.


Engine je davao skoro egal ako se razmene konji, za mrvu je dao prednost crnom. Medjutim, opet lako je meni kao paceru iz fotelje da komentarisem odavde, oni to kalkulisu mnogo vise i procenjuju. Sa druge strane zbog toga je partija i bila ovako rizicna, tako da nije lose ispalo. happy.png


Nadam se da ce biti nekih pobeda, ali su zanimljive prve dve partije po meni.

MentalWarZone
You’re disappointed because you’re not MentalWarZone..
x-3232926362

I miss the time when engines were rubbish...

willywillmott
Magnus gave him the material!
nklristic
CooloutAC wrote:
Arnaut10 wrote:

I agree. Im fan of Magnus but I felt bad for Ian while watching the game. I think this was closest he will get to win and he didnt take his chance. What was c3?

He did go for a chance at the very end though with the rook pawn endgame.  but no way Magnus was going to blunder that. lol

Ian was a pawn down in that endgame, so he couldn't win it. It is an easy draw due to Philidor position type endgame, but only Magnus could theoretically win it. Of course, I am saying theoretically in the broadest possible manner, as there was pretty much no way Nepo would lose it.

A few moves after c3 move (perhaps even when he played it) he decided to go for a draw in a most straightforward way, so he gave back the exchange, liquidated to a pawn down endgame where all the pawns were on the same side, and he forced the exchange of queens to get a Philidor type endgame which he can draw easily. He of course avoided rook trade and that was it.



nklristic
CooloutAC wrote:
nklristic wrote:
CooloutAC wrote:
Arnaut10 wrote:

I agree. Im fan of Magnus but I felt bad for Ian while watching the game. I think this was closest he will get to win and he didnt take his chance. What was c3?

He did go for a chance at the very end though with the rook pawn endgame.  but no way Magnus was going to blunder that. lol

Ian was a pawn down in that endgame, so he couldn't win it. It is an easy draw due to Philidor position type endgame, but only Magnus could theoretically win it. Of course, I am saying theoretically in the broadest possible manner, as there was pretty much no way Nepo would lose it.

A few moves after c3 move (perhaps even when he played it) he decided to go for a draw in a most straightforward way, so he gave back the exchange, liquidated to a pawn down endgame where all the pawns were on the same side, and he forced the exchange of queens to get a Philidor type endgame which he can draw easily. He of course avoided rook trade and that was it.



 He tried though.   I mean Fabi scoffed at it but you never know lmao.   Yasser made a remark on chessbrah that blunders could happen at that point.  Though we are tlaking Magnus here so doubtful.

Hm, I am not sure where could Magnus blunder when he was a pawn up. The only possible blunder was for Nepo to exchange rooks on move 47 and lose (which of course will not happen). I don't see what Magnus could feasibly do to throw away 1 pawn up Philidor type position. happy.png He was trying to win that in the end, certainly not Nepo who was a pawn down. But ok, I didn't listen to Fabi's commentary, so I can't be sure what position he was referring to.

Nepo's chance was in that complicated exchange and a pawn up middlegame where Magnus had something for it, but Nepo was still somewhat better. Magnus is playing a bit riskier than I expected. It is nice to see some fighting games in this match.


Fayez58
Lightning wrote:

Conversely, if you are able to get a 1 point advantage against Magnus Carlson, you have a reasonable chance to win the match potentially and become World Champion

Fabiano was able to get some winning chance in the last championship, but he wasn't able to win by that.Very rarely anyone can get chance. Magnus won't blunder every match and he will certainly play for carefully the next game.

Fayez58
ninjaswat wrote:

Lmao try it yourself lol

I would probably lose even with a queen up. But at high level, 1 point advantage is enough to win

Fayez58

Of course, the position was very unclear, but still....

LostSeoull

I am disappointed in you