Do timed-tactic problems actually help a beginner like me?

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Avatar of Amanda2018

hello,


been playing for about 6 months and it seems like digging deeper into a position would be time better spent for a beginner (like ME) than quickly finding something that works?   i mean, isn't that the opposite of finding the “best” move?  when solving a position… shouldn’t we look deeply for the best move?  quickly finding a move seems like i'am using intuition more than calculating ability?  my goal is learning to solve positions in OTB games (not blitz)  it feels like timed-tactic drills are leading me in the wrong direction?  am i missing something? …i usually do:)


tnx 4 any ideas


Avatar of jonnin

Yes but you can ignore the timed part and score.   Just try to find the answer ... speed comes with practice.  

Making them timed with blitz style timers was a bad idea, but there are some great puzzles in there and you can learn from them, even if it takes you 5, 10 min to find a move.

Avatar of EscherehcsE

In my opinion, you should have two separate goals.

1) Difficult problems that you take a long time on, to develop your calculation and visualization skills, and

2) Easy, timed tactical problems that you learn to find within say, 15 seconds. See this Novice Nook: https://web.archive.org/web/20131006093112/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman04.pdf

Avatar of Diakonia

For "beginners" the timer will probably do more harm than good.  The important thing is to learn, understand, and obsorb the pattern.  

Later as you improve, the timer will help you deal with the stress of finding tactics under pressure.

Avatar of BRAVE-NITE

I went to untimed tactics trainer and set it a bit higher than my rating. Speed is not important in chess. Getting the best move is what I strive for.

Avatar of EscherehcsE

Well, I agree with Diakonia in that if you're a complete beginner, you first have to learn tactics before you can hope to find tactics in a certain time period. Once you know the tactical basics, and assuming you'll be on the clock in tournament games, then you can try to solve a basic tactics set in a timed environment.

You might want to read what Heisman recommends in his discussion of using Bain's "Chess Tactics for Students":

http://www.danheisman.com/Events_Books/General_Book_Guide.htm

Note that for Bain level tactics, he recommends the Chess Tempo tactics set at approximately 900 to 1250 elo levels.

Avatar of RookSacrifice_OLD

The best tactics for beginners are in the book Back to Basics: Tactics by Dan Heisman. It's a lot better than other basic tactic books (including the books Dan Heisman himself recommends).

Avatar of RookSacrifice_OLD

Also, time is very bad for all players, because when they think they "see" the tactic but are not 1000% sure, they will rush and play it. In real games, this causes very bad miscalculations.

Avatar of Samaritaine

Bit funny... You didn't play 1 game, you didn't even try solve 1 tactic.

Avatar of EscherehcsE
Samaritaine wrote:

Bit funny... You didn't play 1 game, you didn't even try solve 1 tactic.

Wadda you know? She's played just as many games as I have! Tongue Out

Although I have to say that I've done infinitely more tactics than she has. Wink (1 over 0 = infinity)

Avatar of Samaritaine
EscherehcsE wrote:
Samaritaine wrote:

Bit funny... You didn't play 1 game, you didn't even try solve 1 tactic.

Wadda you know? She's played just as many games as I have!

Although I have to say that I've done infinitely more tactics than she has. (1 over 0 = infinity)

But your tactics score is 100%! Much better... Always amazing chess.com; you are here almost 5 year and no play 1 game?? But seems you made a few people happy. Are you a chess coach?

Avatar of goodchess123

Timing your tactics makes you more likely to guess before FULLY calculating the moves. It is better to practice lots of tactics without a timer rather than timing them. The more tactics you solve the faster and better you will eventually become.

Avatar of EscherehcsE
Samaritaine wrote:

But your tactics score is 100%! Much better... Always amazing chess.com; you are here almost 5 year and no play 1 game?? But seems you made a few people happy. Are you a chess coach?

Has it really been that long? My, how time flies when you're having fun!

No, I'm not good enough to be a coach. Actually, I'm trying to take over Kaynight's job here, but it's really tough getting to that elite level! Smile

Avatar of Samaritaine

Ha Kaynight... he is funny. The infamous author of the unknown story of Dr Heckle & Mr Shyte.

Avatar of Amanda2018
EscherehcsE wrote:

In my opinion, you should have two separate goals.

1) Difficult problems that you take a long time on, to develop your calculation and visualization skills, and

2) Easy, timed tactical problems that you learn to find within say, 15 seconds. See this Novice Nook: https://web.archive.org/web/20131006093112/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman04.pdf

thanks to everyone for ur insight, it helps immensely!   now that i have read this ChessCafe article i have to re-evaluate my thinking.  i dint know about Novice Nook or Dan Heisman and this article was a real eye opener for me.  “i see” said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw:)  wat a great resource chess-com is!  tnx again everybody.

 

... and yes, its sad but true i haven't tried live-chess on here yet.  it will be a big step for me cuz i’am scared to step out of my comfort zone (sigh)

Avatar of EscherehcsE
RookSacrifice wrote:

The best tactics for beginners are in the book Back to Basics: Tactics by Dan Heisman. It's a lot better than other basic tactic books (including the books Dan Heisman himself recommends).

I really liked Back to Basics: Tactics. I'm not sure I'd say it's the best beginner's tactics book, as I haven't tried them all, but it's very good. It's a "wide" book in the elo sense; Dan claims it's for players from 800 to 1900. It's not a real thick book, but it has an adequate amount of content. I like that it has a section on "counting", which is important for beginners but not included in very many tactics books. Also, the tactical positions are for the most part taken from real games, so you won't be exposed to a lot of artificially created positions.

Is the book still available? Dan's site says it's out of stock. (Oh, and don't order it from ChessCafe, as it appears that they're effectively out of business.)

One last comment - Here's an archive link to the still available Novice Nook collection:

https://web.archive.org/web/20131005134958/http://home.comcast.net/~danheisman/Articles/subject.htm

Avatar of X_PLAYER_J_X

Sadly, I might have a shock for you!

 

I have gotten my ranking by doing less than 1 hours worth of tactics trainer!

In my entire chess career.

Which is going on 2 years now!

Believe it or not!

It might shock.

However, you can get to 1800+ with out doing tactics trainer religiously!

I think the problem people have is.

They do tactical puzzles thinking by doing TT it will make them better.

However, that is the furthest from the truth!

Doing TT only helps with 1 particular skill.

Your tactical vision!

The problem is this skill is very limited in a chess game.

 

For example let me explain:

When you do a tactical puzzle.

What is happening to you is very simple.

Some one is spoon feeding you a position which has a tactic in it.

Let me give you a real life metaphor as an example:

 

Lets say someone baked a cake and they tell you to put the icing on the cake.

Doing tactical trainer is like putting the icing and finishing touches on a cake.

They make the cake, hand it to you, and tell you to put the icing etc.

When you do tactics trainer that is the skill you are practicing.

Your icing and finishing skills!

However, here comes the problem.

The problem is playing a chess game is like a baking book with ingredients!

Which means before you can do the icing and finishing.

You first have to make and create the cake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are not training that skill set when you do tactics trainer!

Now what happens if you don't know how to bake or create a cake??

Well than your icing and finishing skills are useless!!!

Who cares if you know how to put wonderful icing fairies and decorations on the cake!

If you have no cake to put icing on than your skill is useless!

I know how to make wonderful little icing decoration trees!!

You do?

Yes!!!

Ok good make me a cake with icing decorating trees on them.

No I can't do that!

Why not?

Because I don't know how to bake a cake.

Well than your skill is useless. What are you thinking? Are you planning to put the icing on the plate by itself with no cake? Or are you going to buy some little cup cakes? Ridiculous!!!

 

Which is why when I started out and even now.

I don't put a lot of hype in tactics trainer.

The reason why is because I play chess games and after the game I review my games.

Once I review my games with like a chess engine for example.

The chess engine will point out any tactics or icing items I missed.

Once it points them out.

I can learn how the tactic happens!

Not only do I see the tactic which is what tactics trainning is trying to accomplish.

But I see how the position was created which lead up to that tactic being possible.

It is like learning both the cake and the icing part both at the same time.

Which is why it is very important to review games.

Your games, Other peoples games, and Title players games.

 


So yeah I caution you.

If all you do is do tactics problems.

Than I feel you are missing out on other important things.

Obviously the time and effort you put into those tactics could be spent in reviewing one of your own chess games.

Which will have a greater impact on your chess.

Which really goes beyond timed tactics or untimed tactics.

Tactics trainning has its own uses in its own right which I have mentioned above.

However, they can never be a full substitute to actual game play and review.

Avatar of EscherehcsE
s23bog wrote:

What is the most complicated and interesting game you have ever played?  How many moves?  Can you imagine playing a game that was 1000's of moves long?

Wut?

Avatar of hhnngg1

I think the various chess tactics servers are fantastic tools for anyone who is needing tactical improvement. There are good books out there, but the tactics servers are really good (this one, lichess, chesstempo, etc.) and get you tactics at your level.

 

For beginner players (<1200), Tactics Time is a good book - types of stuff you'll def see in your games at that level. 

 

As a <1200 player, I'd spend less time on advanced tactics, like 1800+ stuff. Even if it's a decent calculational exercise, you'll get a lot more out of learning more easier tactics and spending the extra time if you have any, watching positional videos (Akobian videos) which will enable you to play good, basic moves so you actually GET tactics to play in your games. 


It's pretty frustrating to study a ton of tactics, and then have very few of them show up in your game for you to win with - that's where the positional understanding (I'm talking really basic fundamental stuff that beginners totally mess up - development, center control, etc.) is critical, and even if you're a tactical monster, you'll have problems against players who don't blunder if you don't do these basic things.

Avatar of hhnngg1

Just as an example:

 

Here's a well-explained game of GM Akobian vs GM Becerra on youtube. 

 

It's an outstanding video - even late-beginners will be able to understand all of it - he goes move by move all the reasoning behind each and every move. (This is tougher than you think - most IM and masters have at least a handful of moves they're not sure what the reasoning is behind, but Akobian is a GM and can explain them all.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBN4JsVI-wc&list=PLVWaFpMwtaGguNTCmp2fAFJxhKi0JEpp6&index=17

Once you watch this video, you'll see that there are very few tactics until the end of them game. And the ones that do pop up before then are like <1300 level 2-move type easily seen or avoided tactics. 

 

It's only after he's played a string of good improving moves, that he has the chance to unleash a tactical shot, that's not really that complicated - I'd expect over half lowly 1500 level players to be able to play even in a 5- minute blitz game, let alone a long game (I'm 1500 and saw it in blitz-time pretty readily.) 

 

Of course, if your opponent blunders and makes worse moves than GM Becerra did, you'll have more tactical shots, but it's just one of many examples where you don't need to be able to calculate 10 moves deep, and in fact, you'll probably play a lot better with a good understanding of more basic tactics but also having a good understanding of basic positional concepts to improve the position.