Does studying GM games really help?

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Avatar of maskedbishop

>Talented kids enjoy studying master games and eventually become strong players. <

Who? Where are they? If by "strong" you mean over 1800-2200, we are talking about 6000 or so people...most of whom are long entrenched on the list. 

Sounds like you are talking about, literally, a tiny handful of people. 

Avatar of maskedbishop

It would be very interesting to find out how many players cross over into 2200, 2000, and 1800 each year, if we are using those levels as "strong."

My guess...a very small number. Most of the people with those ratings have had them for a long time, protected by floors. 

Avatar of MetalRatel

Studying master games is simply one aspect of study. Of course, you should study your own games. How many people do you know who are seriously studying to become a master? There is a lot of wishing, but when it comes down to it, most aren't doing the work it takes. It's a serious effort. Say you followed the approved maskedbishop under-2000 study plan to the letter. What do you do when you reach 2000?

Avatar of BMeck
maskedbishop wrote:

It would be very interesting to find out how many players cross over into 2200, 2000, and 1800 each year, if we are using those levels as "strong."

My guess...a very small number. Most of the people with those ratings have had them for a long time, protected by floors. 

You keep using small number. Did it ever occur to you that only a "small" number could be studying correctly?

Avatar of zborg

Grandmaster games (for folks under USCF 1900) are best broken down into bite-sized pieces and presented in books.  Johan Hellsten and John Nunn both authored a number of books along these lines.

On balance, entire whole GM games are hardly useful, because you can't play that way, and you're mostly wasting your time trying to follow the thread of their strategy.  It's just too convoluted and difficult for weaker players to do.  And, besides, if you don't use that particular opening system, what good does it really do you?

A move horizon of about 5 to (at most) 20 ply is perhaps the best way to learn chess ideas.  From that perspective, "whole games" mostly waste the time of weaker players.

Yes, these games are beautiful.  But so what.  Instead, be practical, then be beautiful much later -- if you are ever lucky enough to become that good.

Or hire a good chess coach.  They don't come cheap.

Avatar of johnyoudell

yes

Avatar of zborg
maskedbishop wrote:

It would be very interesting to find out how many players cross over into 2200, 2000, and 1800 each year, if we are using those levels as "strong."

My guess...a very small number. Most of the people with those ratings have had them for a long time, protected by floors. 

In the USA, a rating of 1800 is roughly the 90th percentile for about 60,000 OTB tournament players.

A more relevant fact is that roughly 50 percent of all OTB games in the U.S. are accounted for by that same 10 percent of players above.

They are Very Busy Guys.

Avatar of MervynS

You have to be selective with the games you study. So many games these days have moves and ideas that are influenced with very precise preparation that even GMs wouldn't be able to find or confidently play in OTB chess.

Avatar of BigHickory

After playing in tournaments I use chessbase to pull up annotated master games that used similar openings.  Then I use Fritz to through the game move by move, letting it do analysis on each move.   Depending on the game goes and how interesting it is, I'll study from around 15 to 30 moves into the game.

I'll also let Fritz do analysis on my games, and then go over all the results.

I've been doing this for several years and my OTB chess rating has improved steadily, by something like 150 points per year.  (I know, not great for a young player, but my hair is white and getting pretty thin, and it is hard for us older guys to improve our game a lot)

The software tools set you back a few hundred dollars but once you have them you can use them for years.  I don't bother to upgrade since at my level it doesn't matter if I primarily study older games.

Time wise, the most time consuming part is manually entering my own games.  Now that I've been doing it for a while everything else goes pretty quick.

I find that studying games this way is much more practical and useful than studying BORING books on openings.

BTW, the analysis that Fritz gives on master and grandmaster games is VERY interesting, and it does a lot to put the analysis of my own games into perspective.  And when I wonder why a master didn't play a certain move I can have Fritz look at it and tell me why it is worse than the move actually played.

Avatar of Scottrf

It's strange that there certain advice is only relevant to people that have surpassed specific (and suspiciously round) arbitrary rating levels.

I'm sure everyone has the exact same knowledge and strengths/weaknesses at each rating level.

Avatar of adil89

First of all I agree with OP. Studying GM games is useless for lower rated players. The GMs have advanced knowledge in Opening, Middle and Endgame and know how to convert a winning position into a Win. 

 

Secondly, I am trying a new method to imrpove.

 

Following are the steps for chess.com:

 

1. Determine your standard rating on chess.com by playing a number of games. 

2. Devise a plan for Opening Repertoire. This Repertoire would grow as if it is a 'Living Entity'. 

AS White select d4 or e4. and One defense each for 1.e4/d4/c4/Nf3.

Avoid all lines leading to Ruy Lopez or Sicilian. Ask some expert. BTW, I have Pfren in mind. 

Refer standard books and write only first 4 or 5 moves for your choice. Our opponents in Intermediate level doent know openings more than 5 moves. Remember first 5 moves and ask some expert for 'Strategical Themes'. The one I remember is ' Every e4 player secretly wishes to play d4 on second move and every d4 player secretly wishes to play e4 on second move. I will come to this later on.

3. Determine how many taqctical puzzles you want to attempt every day. 10? 15? or 25?

4. Take live lecture from expert regarding 'Kings and Pawn Endings only.

5. Read a simple Strategy book. I have MIchel Stean, Dan Heisman and Silman in mind.

6. Take help from 'Ratings' determined from your Standard play. Now devote a certain portion every day watching Standard (Long) live games of players (on chess.com) , rated 300 more than you. At every move try to think what white would play or black would play.


7. No Bullet or Blitz please.     

  

8. Play one 'Standard Game' a week. After the game. Critially examine all the moves and write your ideas and post on a forum for further guidance.

 

9. On the basis of these games start expanding your 'Repertoire'.   

Avatar of clambake77

don't know if this has been said, but it never hurts to study any type of chess. yes, play over the game or games for fun, try to guess the moves before you look at the next move, cool to do with a friend so he or she can make the other moves, and or, try to follow why certain moves were made. the theory. it certainly doesn't hurtSmile

Avatar of Optimissed

<<I'm going to sit tight on my assertion that studying GM games isn't helping anyone improve, because there's zero data presented so far to indicate otherwise.>>

It was always the way experienced players recommended you to try to improve. The trouble was, I could never understand grandmaster games. When I was playing in intermediate tournaments, I couldn't understand moves being played in open tournaments. Eventually though, the idea of "doing nothing but doing it well" started to click.

Avatar of MervynS

There is nothing wrong studying annotations from FMs or IMs, their understanding of the game is at the same level of GMs, but either their OTB chess play means they can't get GM norms easily (don't get me wrong, FMs and IMs are still brutally strong players compared to most of us), or their life circumstances meant they chose not to pursue the GM title.

Most probably know Jeremy Silman's books, I also have two of John Watson's books and I have a chess DVD by Andrew Martin, all who are IMs.

Avatar of I_Am_Second

Using GM/IM/FM/etc. games are helpful.  Solitaire chess with them is an excellent way to improve your game.

Avatar of Masterjatin

In that case, you can study machine games.

They don't have much to admire except sharp calculation of far moves.

And TCEC Season 6 has just finished, with a lot to analyze yourself.

There are more, like former WCCC.

If you'd ever like to study positional theories, GM games are best. And, there aren't much computers whose games are admired.

I'd conclude by the saying: You can at best be like your teacher.

Actually studying your own games is best idea, but later all's your wish.

Avatar of sapientdust

Studying master games can be extremely beneficial, if they are annotated at the right level for the reader. The most useful for beginning and intermediate levels are "instructive annotated game collections" like Chernev's The Most Instructive Games of Chess Ever Played: 62 Masterpieces of Chess Strategy or Reinfeld's The Immortal Games of Capablanca.

Newer works of the same kind include many Everyman publications (which are also available in chessbase and PGN forms) like Chess Secrets: The Giants of Strategy: Learn from Kramnik, Karpov, Petrosian, Capablanca and Nimzowitsch, by Neil McDonald (everything he does is highly recommended), and the great Understanding Chess Move by Move, by John Nunn.

Avatar of maskedbishop

Yeah, well, you see these books recommended all the time. Some of them have been on the shortlists for decades. I'm not convinced they are adding rating points. 

You read something like Understanding Chess Move by Move and it's yeah, great, nice move GM...and thanks for telling me why they did that, Mr. Nunn. 

But it doesn't make YOU a better player. You can watch golf and see Tiger Wood takes his 5 iron out, and have the reasoning behind that carefully explained to you. Doesn't mean if you are at the same place on the same course that your five iron is going to help AT ALL. 

There seems to be an assumption that if you stare at their play enough, and have someone "explain" it to you, eventually osmosis will kick in and your own much more limited set of chess skills will absorb theirs. 

I say...NO. That doesn't happen. Studying GM games will not make you a better chess player. It will make you a better chess enthusiast, fan, or reader. But your OTB skills will not significantly improve...because you will never think like they think.

You can learn to play piano, but it doesn't matter how often you listen to Horowitz, or watch his fingers move...you will never play it at his level. 

Avatar of I_Am_Second
maskedbishop wrote:

Yeah, well, you see these books recommended all the time. Some of them have been on the shortlists for decades. I'm not convinced they are adding rating points. 

You read something like Understanding Chess Move by Move and it's yeah, great, nice move GM...and thanks for telling me why they did that, Mr. Nunn. 

But it doesn't make YOU a better player. You can watch golf and see Tiger Wood takes his 5 iron out, and have the reasoning behind that carefully explained to you. Doesn't mean if you are at the same place on the same course that your five iron is going to help AT ALL. 

There seems to be an assumption that if you stare at their play enough, and have someone "explain" it to you, eventually osmosis will kick in and your own much more limited set of chess skills will absorb theirs. 

I say...NO. That doesn't happen. Studying GM games will not make you a better chess player. It will make you a better chess enthusiast, fan, or reader. But your OTB skills will not significantly improve...because you will never think like they think.

You can learn to play piano, but it doesn't matter how often you listen to Horowitz, or watch his fingers move...you will never play it at his level. 

You want to hear something funny?  You know what it took for my rating to take off, and for my game to really improve? 

Those Igor Smirnov courses...no kidding.  He doesnt supply "magic in a bottle"  Waht he delivers in his courses is nothing earth shattering or new.  Its how he explains things. 

Avatar of Optimissed

<<because you will never think like they think.>>

On the contrary, GMs are GMs because they think like GMs a greater proportion of the time than non-GMs.