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Draw by timeout and insufficient material?????

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AarnaSinghOfficial

Hello all, today I was playing Blitz 3min game and my opponent had 2 queen and I had nothing but time. My opponent didn't had time and when the game ended on time I ended in a draw. I should have won the game becoz my opponent's time was over, but it ended in a draw showing draw by timeout and insufficient material. I mean my opponent had 2 queens so I should not be showing draw by insufficient material, right? And this has happened with me alot of time. What should I do to prevent it?

Martin_Stahl
AarnaSinghOfficial wrote:

Hello all, today I was playing Blitz 3min game and my opponent had 2 queen and I had nothing but time. My opponent didn't had time and when the game ended on time I ended in a draw. I should have won the game becoz my opponent's time was over, but it ended in a draw showing draw by timeout and insufficient material. I mean my opponent had 2 queens so I should not be showing draw by insufficient material, right? And this has happened with me alot of time. What should I do to prevent it?

Time only matters if you have sufficient material to mate. If your opponent runs out of time and you only have a king, the best result you can ever get is a draw as a king can never mate, given infinite time.

There are also other material combinations that also are a draw when your opponent times out and the ones used here are listed in the following.

https://support.chess.com/en/articles/8557986-my-opponent-ran-out-of-time-why-was-it-a-draw

tygxc

6.9 Except where one of Articles 5.1.1, 5.1.2, 5.2.1, 5.2.2, 5.2.3 applies, if a player does not complete the prescribed number of moves in the allotted time, the game is lost by that player. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.

https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012023

SMMchessplayer

This rule is the most Un logical and unfair rule that can ever be applied in a game. If there is not enough material to checkmate the other player; that is the player who lacks "the said material" problem. If one player has better time management then why should the other players time constraint be totally removed? That literally means that the rules traveled in time backward to the beginning of the game and required only one player to abide by the time constraint! Why even have a time clock? maybe in an untimed game, even then it should be a mutual agreement to draw at any point in the game. If the situation arises where there is not enough material on the board to checkmate the other player then the game should end right then and there on that move, which again overrides the time clock factor which makes it a mote point to have in the first place. By the logic of this rule In theory before any player moves in a time game the game should be over and Draw out of time vs not enough material should occur if you want to get into the mindset of this rule, because before either player even makes a move there is really infinite time regardless of the counter, if white never moves it is again even more impossible to checkmate for either side but yet a time implemented rule will cause white to lose , it makes no logical sense! Crazy, yes, it is just as crazy as this rule being applied in any timed game. If linear time is the most powerful governing factor in the game, then running out of time should never even the players out, never! Running out of time means that there are no more moves that player can make, that is not a result of skill or of mistake, it is a rule of the main structure of this type of match. The player who runs out of time has lost regardless of anything else, just saying.

Martin_Stahl
SMMchessplayer wrote:

This rule is the most Un logical and unfair rule that can ever be applied in a game. If there is not enough material to checkmate the other player; that is the player who lacks "the said material" problem. If one player has better time management then why should the other players time constraint be totally removed? That literally means that the rules traveled in time backward to the beginning of the game and required only one player to abide by the time constraint! Why even have a time clock? maybe in an untimed game, even then it should be a mutual agreement to draw at any point in the game. If the situation arises where there is not enough material on the board to checkmate the other player then the game should end right then and there on that move, which again overrides the time clock factor which makes it a mote point to have in the first place. By the logic of this rule In theory before any player moves in a time game the game should be over and Draw out of time vs not enough material should occur if you want to get into the mindset of this rule, because before either player even makes a move there is really infinite time regardless of the counter, if white never moves it is again even more impossible to checkmate for either side but yet a time implemented rule will cause white to lose , it makes no logical sense! Crazy, yes, it is just as crazy as this rule being applied in any timed game. If linear time is the most powerful governing factor in the game, then running out of time should never even the players out, never! Running out of time means that there are no more moves that player can make, that is not a result of skill or of mistake, it is a rule of the main structure of this type of match. The player who runs out of time has lost regardless of anything else, just saying.

If it's impossible for one player to mate, they should never get a win. What counts as sufficient to win on time outside of that impossibility, mate can be achieved in some manner, depends on the rules the games are played under.

jetoba

SMM, time DID count. If time did not count then you would have probably ended up losing by checkmate. Because time counted you escaped with a draw.

Being reduced to a lone king and trying to claim a win on time involves a fair amount of chutzpah (not a huge amount, but a fair amount).

If you have been playing in person with somebody who says that a lone king can win on time then that person is either lacking knowledge or is taking advantage of you. Over the past forty+ years of working tournaments (multiple hundreds of tournaments with a 3-digit or 4-digit number of players, in addition to hundreds of smaller events) I have seen a LOT of erroneous "rules" people thought were true.

SMMchessplayer

Thanks for the insight and response Martin and Jetoba very interesting points of view! Although I beg to differ... and yes Martin ultimately the rules played under well...rule! I accept that, based on rules, although in every timed game where one player only has a king on the board and the other a potential to mate, then by the combined logic that you very astute players have so generously posed, definitively the game should end right there on that move! Just saying! A big DRAW should come up on the screen right in the middle, but it doesn't, interesting. In my opinion the game continues so the superior force can get a checkmate, and that to me is favoritism for the player with checkmate potential vs the lone king who is cunning and surgical with the moves that evade the superior force, until the clock runs out! I am a mediocre player and have played people who were way higher ranked than me like I'm a 700 and they are a 1500 in a timed game and have decimated their force down to a lone king with seconds on the clock and could not get a checkmate on them and my time ran out and I felt like they got discounted by getting a draw by these rules! Jetoba if the highest value "target" per say, is still on the board able to move about freely and the other player has a superior force on the board in operation who did not come to draw but to win and cannot cause a surrender or a checkmate and the superior forces operation time runs out and the lone king is not captured plus the king has operation time still on the clock, then the lone kings forces have won! LONG LIVE THE KING!! At a certain point in the match when one player has a lone king, and the other player has a superior force that match has just started right on that turn for the player with the superior force, it's almost as if the superior forces clock just started, deal with it, it's not the lone king's problem! This game is great! I really enjoyed your responses very cool very insightful; I will ponder your combined knowledge deeply. THANKS !

tygxc

Your opponent cannot win because he has no time. You cannot win because you have no series of legal moves to checkmate him, no matter how badly he plays. So a draw it is.

SMMchessplayer

Thanks for the input that's cool! just saying the clock is my best friend a lot of times especially when I am outclassed in the game ! thanks !