I have read everything just fine. I'm so certain of that I'm not even going to waste my time doing as you suggest. Try to say things less stupid next time you post here.
Draw or Win?
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CuddlyMonkey ha scritto:
I have read everything just fine. I'm so certain of that I'm not even going to waste my time doing as you suggest. Try to say things less stupid next time you post here.
sure! Can you please explain the meaning of: (from first post)
aman_makhija ha scritto:
.......
Here, white took the pawn on h7. The move was completed on the board, but white's clock ran out of time, before he had the chance to hit it. A huge argument arose.
......
It means exactly what it says, I have no idea what you're getting at. Are you illiterate?
CuddlyMonkey ha scritto:
It means exactly what it says, I have no idea what you're getting at. Are you illiterate?
You like to be offensive.
So for you:
CuddlyMonkey ha scritto:
Black can legally checkmate White. The pawn on h7 was never taken. That turn was never completed. Black wins.
means
aman_makhija ha scritto:
.......
Here, white took the pawn on h7. The move was completed on the board, but white's clock ran out of time, before he had the chance to hit it. A huge argument arose.
......
I think you're doing some little misunderstanding because you don't know some chess rules (par ex: execute a move and complete a move). In meantime I prefere you to understand alone, I don't like to say I'm right and you are wrong just because I'm an arbiter.
I confirm that the proposed example is a draw.
You're wrong. The rule is very simple, very clear. Posted in this thread already. You're an idiot.
The OP says that the board showed the move played but the clock was not pressed before the flag dropped. That means the move wasn't made. That means that Black did have sufficient mating material. That means this is a very straight forward win for Black.
There really isn't any more to it. The game didn't end as the h7 pawn was taken so the clock was required to end the turn so no side rule as stated earlier is relevant.
You're wrong about this game. You're wrong when you repeatedly insisted that I contradicted the OP. You're just wrong. It isn't even complicated...
Nice little drawing technique.
CuddlyMonkey ha scritto:
.....
The OP says that the board showed the move played but the clock was not pressed before the flag dropped. That means the move wasn't made. ...
Yes, it's clear! what you wrote means you don't know some basic chess rules. In England there's very good arbiter, just go and ask.
once more I confirm that the proposed example is a draw.
Jan 26, 2016
0
#29
This is a tricky one. If it's absolutely certain that White took the pawn before the flag fell, it's a draw. But if it's not clear, then I'd award the win.
newengland7 wrote:
During the game each player, having made his move on the chessboard, shall stop his own clock and start his opponent’s clock. A player must always be allowed to stop hisclock. His move is not considered to have been completed until he has done so...
SmyslovFan wrote:
This is a tricky one. If it's absolutely certain that White took the pawn before the flag fell, it's a draw. But if it's not clear, then I'd award the win.
That is wrong. The rules have even been posted. Why can nobody understand simple English?
I am in agreement with CuddlyMonkey, the arbiter was wrong and the game should have been awarded a win to black.
Please use the updated rulebook from the FIDE website https://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html?id=171&view=article It differs slightly from what a few of you have quoted here, though in substance the rules remain the same:
6.2
- During the game each player, having made his move on the chessboard, shall stop his own clock and start his opponent’s clock (that is to say, he shall press his clock). This “completes” the move. A move is also completed if:
- the move ends the game (see Articles 5.1.a, 5.2.a, 5.2.b, 5.2.c, 9.6a, 9.6b and 9.7), or
- the player has made his next move, in case his previous move was not completed.
In the game posted here white failed to press his clock in his allotted time, therefore the move was not valid, and the game finished with the position as the OP posted.
As black has a king and pawn left on the board he can clearly mate white through "any series of legal moves" and thus should have been awarded the win.
Thank you Lago :)
Jan 26, 2016
0
#34
The key point is 9.7:
| 9.7 |
The game is drawn when a position is reached from which a checkmate cannot occur by any possible series of legal moves. This immediately ends the game, provided that the move producing this position was in accordance with Article 3 and Articles 4.2 – 4.7.
The position on the board is reached when White takes the pawn. |
ok, first you have to know there's other rules as 1.1:
|
1.1 |
The game of chess is played between two opponents who move their pieces on a square board called a ‘chessboard’. The player with the light-coloured pieces (White) makes the first move, then the players move alternately, with the player with the dark-coloured pieces (Black) making the next move. A player is said to ‘have the move’ when his opponent’s move has been ‘made’. |
Rule 1.1 says "made" and not "complete". And we are in the first rows of law of chess.
Then read the 9.7 as Smislov fan just wrote for you
| 9.7 |
The game is drawn when a position is reached from which a checkmate cannot occur by any possible series of legal moves. |
but please, go to an official arbiter and ask.
SmyslovFan ha scritto:
The position on the board is reached when White takes the pawn.
I'm agree!
There is a difference (although FIDE typically do not make it clear) between a "move" or a move being "made", and a "completed" move. The term "completed" only makes an appearance when refering to the rules of the chessclock.
As this game was played with a clock, those rules should take priority over rule 1.1
SmyslovFan wrote:
The key point is 9.7:
9.7The game is drawn when a position is reached from which a checkmate cannot occur by any possible series of legal moves. This immediately ends the game, provided that the move producing this position was in accordance with Article 3 and Articles 4.2 –
4.7
The position on the board is reached when White takes the pawn.
Rule 9.7 is only key if we can be 100% sure that the last completed move of the game was Kxh7.
As the flag fell between the white player making the "move" on the board, and him pressing the clock to "complete" the move, this is a debatable point and this is the "key" to the discussion.
Lagomorph,
You may have missed this important detail from OP:
"Here, white took the pawn on h7. The move was completed on the board, but white's clock ran out of time, before he had the chance to hit it."
GMPatzer wrote:
Draw!
Same as mate on the board you don't have to stop the clock!
There is a specific rule 6.2.a.1 which provides that a "move" on the board which deliveres checkmate is also considered to have "completed" the move, ie no requirement to press the clock.
That is a different situation to the one under discussion here.
This is a case of a draw, since the opponent of the player whose flag fell cannot give a check- mate by any series of legal moves...
Black can legally checkmate White. The pawn on h7 was never taken. That turn was never completed. Black wins.
you should read all the thread before responding haphazardly.
Please read again the first post where the question started.