I'm holding on with soft slippery fingers (a win) but I will never-ever let this one go.
It's 'cuz my mind returns to FIDE and I keep saying to me that they have this one all wrong. It's come down to that I don't really like hearing people protecting this ruling.
'Cuz the rule states sush & such doesn't make it right.
Now we've been going at it for nearly 500 posts and that should say FIDE needs to reconvene, revisit, and rescind this awful Dewey decimal.
CuddlyMonkey aman_makhija what means life for you, why do we exists, why life exists? Will you always base your answer in strong opinions? I think you were taking this too serious! It's just a game guys, calm down!
....too simplistic.
Normally when you have a strong opinion about something, you're most likely wrong! So vague questions, vague answers...
Let's say a game ended when White's time ran out in a position where White would have been able to force a position where Black had insufficient material in, say, ten moves. By that same logic that should be judged as a draw as well -- would you agree?
The intention of forcing such a position doesn't change the fact that the game ended before such a position was reached.
The intention of forcing the position is enough. Clocks don't matter.
I'm sick of my thread. THe first half of this thread had sensible people making sensible arguments, but now we're just repeating the same thing.
LOCKING!
Tracking turned off!
OH and just to conclude:
DRAW
I'm about to write some verses on this and my disregard for FIDE....would you wait ?
****
Check my pulse
it's like the clock
make your move
(listen....) tick tock
I'm FIDE the man
that's who I am
I made a moat
so you can't vote
I shake the hand
that shook the hand
of those with bread
to stay ahead
You run my life
with a butter knife
I'm here upset
and can't forget
pleez change your rule
I'm all confuzed
I thought I'd won
but you say "Lose".
....what do I do ?
****
AHHHHHH !!!
I'm gonna go outside and run down the road screaming !!
@Teddyhead: "Hypothetically speaking, in case the position was considered to change only when the move was completed, then the last move that was made but not completed would not have to be 'unmade' -- making that move just simply wouldn't be considered to contribute to the final position."
I understand that the supposition you make above is integral to the discussion. That's why I asked the question. From what can we infer that the move 'doesn't count' if the flag falls before the clock is pressed? It doesn't say that anywhere. But it does say that moves that are made can't be changed or unmade. In fact, black can make his next move before white hits his clock - the rules even account for that. The clock can stop future moves from being made (by ending the game) but it can't undo or change moves that are already made.
The problem with you is the problem with me. We both have 20/20 vision, but to see thru your eyes ?....is like looking thru a waxed window for some logic.
My eyes are 32 squares in white and the black ones are the view you hold. And if a draw was the color grey ?....the board would blend w/ compromise....but it doesn't.
I'll say it again. This rule doesn't work for me and the more I think about it the more I get steadfast. And I've found that when an irrestible force (my feelings) meets an immoveable object (FIDE Ruling) ?....well, let's just say sometimes I end up getting dismissed.
I guess I've just learned to live with it all....but I'll never accept it.
That's why we love you Lola! Because it's you.
It's still a draw.
@Lola: Consider it this way: if you were playing White while your time ran out right after you had finished making that last move without completing it, and your opponent insisted it was a draw, would you make a dispute claiming that you had lost?
IDK, but I would be like "sh*t I lost" 'cuz my flag fell before I pressed my side of the clock. IOW's, I'd feel as tho' I lost.
@blastforme: Those explanations are eloquently stated and, I think, most in keeping with the spirit and letter of the rules of Chess insofar as they are able.