Draws should count less than loss

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finnsteur
Arisktotle a écrit :

Study the prisoners dilemma before making weird scoring proposals. There is an obvious optimal strategy for both players when drawing is penalized. One of them will propose a coin toss which says as much as "I offer a draw, do you accept?". The other player agrees to tossing a coin with the implicit meaning "I accept the draw, now let's start optimizing the score". The loser of the coin toss resigns under duress of the universal draw code. He who violates it ... well, let's not go there.

Lol. Or the player with white would just think he has more chance of winning than his opponent and play the game.

Arisktotle
finnsteur wrote:

Lol. Or the player with white would just think he has more chance of winning than his opponent and play the game.

I didn't suggest they don't play the chess game. The coin toss comes in to replace an actual draw proposal.

finnsteur

Doesn't change a thing, no chessplayers want to leave the game up to chance.

THey would play sharp variations to try their outmost to win.

And even when 1 player start thinking about leaving the game up to chance the other ones like Carlsen would torture him for hours before admitting to anything.

Great chess.

DiogenesDue

No need for draws to be worth less.  You can achieve the same aim by just having:

Win 1

Draw 0

Lose 0

So, draws have no points for either player, as if they never played at all for that round.  It does lead to the coin flip scenario somebody mentioned, though.  But you would hope those "coin flips" would more often take place by somebody risking something OTB rather than just an unspoken agreement.

This is less final than actual single elimination, but only winners score any points,

Arisktotle
finnsteur wrote:

Doesn't change a thing, no chessplayers want to leave the game up to chance. ...

Oh yes, they will and by the millions. They care about prize money, elo-ratings and grandmaster titles. They don't care about taking outrageous risks to avoid a draw against an equal opponent. That is the essence of the prisoners dilemma. If I know you will do anything to avoid a draw I'll play the most boring opening I can find and then sit still and watch you destroy yourself. That is superior strategy. 

finnsteur
Arisktotle a écrit :
finnsteur wrote:

Doesn't change a thing, no chessplayers want to leave the game up to chance. ...

Oh yes, they will and by the millions. They care about prize money, elo-ratings and grandmaster titles. They don't care about taking outrageous risks to avoid a draw against an equal opponent. That is the essence of the prisoners dilemma. If I know you will do anything to avoid a draw I'll play the most boring opening I can find and then sit still and watch you destroy yourself. That is superior strategy. 

You don't know other player will do the same. A lot of agressive player on this boat.

Ok you'll drag your opponent down with you. He'll make a draw. I assure you he won't self destroy.

Then you'll see that every other round was decisive and you're the only 2 with a minus score ^^

finnsteur
btickler a écrit :

No need for draws to be worth less.  You can achieve the same aim by just having:

Win 1

Draw 0

Lose 0

So, draws have no points for either player, as if they never played at all for that round.  It does lead to the coin flip scenario somebody mentioned, though.  But you would hope those "coin flips" would more often take place by somebody risking something OTB rather than just an unspoken agreement.

This is less final than actual single elimination, but only winners score any points,

Maybe, check my post history I already proposed thath idea ahah

DiogenesDue
finnsteur wrote:
btickler a écrit :

No need for draws to be worth less.  You can achieve the same aim by just having:

Win 1

Draw 0

Lose 0

So, draws have no points for either player, as if they never played at all for that round.  It does lead to the coin flip scenario somebody mentioned, though.  But you would hope those "coin flips" would more often take place by somebody risking something OTB rather than just an unspoken agreement.

This is less final than actual single elimination, but only winners score any points,

Maybe, check my post history I already proposed thath idea ahah

Should have stuck with it then wink.png...it's better all around.  Your new idea would have players paying other players in tournaments to play for draws to knock out their peers.  Win at 1 and draw at -1 is a 2 point swing, which is the winning margin of many a tournament...

"Hey, you're out of the running for this tournament, if you play [insert very drawish line here] against so and so and refuse to win even if they hand you the game, I will pay you $$$...you have to draw to get paid, though, I need them to have a -1 this round...". 

Arisktotle
finnsteur wrote:

You don't know other player will do the same. A lot of agressive player on this boat.

Ok you'll drag your opponent down with you. He'll make a draw. I assure you he won't self destroy.

Then you'll see that every other round was decisive and you're the only 2 with a minus score ^^

Nope! We did the coin toss and this time I won!

Chessflyfisher

Seems like a stupid idea even if well meant.

st0ckfish
1_a31-0 wrote:

I agree! That way I have a realistic chance of winning a tournament (you know, since everyone draws -- while I lose!) 

Adding to this.......I would be a better player than Giri grin.png ..... or higher rated at least

DerpyShoelace

You seem to assume that draws are the result of players not taking risks. While that is true in some of the cases, it is also sometimes because of brilliant defense by their opponent. The system of giving draws -1 points discourages it as a brilliant defense is going to be worth less than a resignation.

 

In my humble opinion, part of chess beauty is also about being able to convert a slightly superior position into a win through brilliant technique. That part of chess is now eliminated as the player who has a worse position will just resign as there is no point in fighting for a draw.

Your idea about the 200 player elimination sounds interesting and could be viable if players played against each other with both colors as white does have an advantage in practical play.

 

Also it is possible that a draw occur even when players play exciting chess. Check out this game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOqmLYlFdBo

 

A draw being less than a loss also does not make sense intuitively. I find it ridiculous that being worse than a player who loses against Magnus Carlsen get more points than one who is able to draw against him.