En Passant...putting King in check?

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Tja_05

Just tell us the answer blueemu...

congrandolor
blueemu wrote:

Sure. As long as it doesn't put your own King in check.

Here's a chess "problem" for you...

White played 1. Bg2+ and said "Mate next move".

Black chuckled and replied "Next move? How about THIS move?" and played 1. ... d5 discovered check.

White captured the Pawn en-passent, and Black objected "Wait, wait... you can't do that! You're in check!"

White replied, "No, YOU'RE in check. Your Pawn never reached the d5 square. It was captured en-passent while crossing the d6 square. You can't check me... you never blocked my original check."

The two players argued for a while, then called over the arbiter.

Who was awarded the point?

Its a draw

Mr-Spur
Scottrf wrote:

 

In an en passant, the concept is that the pawn never gets to d5 as you capture it as if it had only moved one square.

 

Key words here are "as if."

In other words, it's a counterfactual. The pawn DID reach d5, but you can capture it as if it only went to d6. 

MickinMD

As a former USCF Tournament Director (& "Arbiter") the Black Pawn obviously did reach d5 since that's where it rested after it moved there.  The White Pawn did not intercept it at d6 until the next move, which - if I was still directing scholastic tournaments - I'd tell the objecting teenager that his piece effectively pulled the d5-Pawn back to d6 just as a castling King sort of "pulls" the Rook to his other side.

Scottrf

Just repeating the same points. I know what the actual situation is, but neither of the last two posts work with the concept of en passant.

Fly-Eagles-Fly

This is very interesting. For me, I like to think of chess as where you need to capture the king, while you need to warn the other player when you are attacking it, and they need to move away, and checkmate is one move away from one player actually winning, while the checkmated player resigns. All this to say, Black should win since after cxd6, Black plays Bxh3, winning the game. To me it's the same concept of a pinned piece being able to give check, i.e.

That's just my opinion, I'm very interested to know what the official ruling would be.

blueemu
TremaniSunChild wrote:

Just tell us the answer blueemu...

1. ... d5 is checkmate.

The Pawn did indeed reach d5 to block White's check. According to the FIDE rules of chess, a move is complete when the player's hand releases the piece on its new square.

Pensak

blueemu should do more of these lol, great teacher 

blueemu
LouStule wrote:
In my game, I’m trying to capture en passant which gives a discovered check but the site won’t allow the move and I can’t figure out why. Doing it doesn’t put me in check.

I don't see any game in your current list where an en-passent is even possible.

slickjuggler

I don't know why the site wouldn't allow discovered check from en passant.

I don't see any sense in saying the Black moved the pawn to d5 thus blocking the check, but white's response of en passant means the black pawn never landed on d5. Of course the black pawn was on d5. Otherwise black finished his turn while still in check!

Scottrf
slickjuggler wrote:

I don't know why the site wouldn't allow discovered check from en passant.

I don't see any sense in saying the Black moved the pawn to d5 thus blocking the check, but white's response of en passant means the black pawn never landed on d5. Of course the black pawn was on d5. Otherwise black finished his turn while still in check!

Look at any definition of en passant. The pawn is captured passing through the previous square. It doesn't get to d5.

stiggling
Scottrf wrote:
slickjuggler wrote:

I don't know why the site wouldn't allow discovered check from en passant.

I don't see any sense in saying the Black moved the pawn to d5 thus blocking the check, but white's response of en passant means the black pawn never landed on d5. Of course the black pawn was on d5. Otherwise black finished his turn while still in check!

Look at any definition of en passant. The pawn is captured passing through the previous square. It doesn't get to d5.

How can it "pass through" a square if it lands on that square?

This whole topic is weird.

Daniel1115

I believe black would have gotten the point. Assuming the rules would be to kill the king, black would have first opportunity. 

Martin_McBlunder
But as someone already stated, black had to reach d5 because the move is not finished before the player releases it and then it indeed has reached that square. White also have the option to do an en passant, it is not automatic(imagine the chaos) this is just me thinking out loud, I’m not an arbiter :)
Scottrf
stiggling wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
slickjuggler wrote:

I don't know why the site wouldn't allow discovered check from en passant.

I don't see any sense in saying the Black moved the pawn to d5 thus blocking the check, but white's response of en passant means the black pawn never landed on d5. Of course the black pawn was on d5. Otherwise black finished his turn while still in check!

Look at any definition of en passant. The pawn is captured passing through the previous square. It doesn't get to d5.

How can it "pass through" a square if it lands on that square?

This whole topic is weird.

It passed through d6 to get to d5. En passant captures the pawn as it's passing through.

Martin_McBlunder
@scottrf how can it capture when it passes through when it has to wait for its turn?
Scottrf
Martin_McBlunder wrote:
@scottrf how can it capture when it passes through when it has to wait for its turn?

It doesn't. That's just the on-board representation of events.

If you're concentrating on what's on the board only, you can't capture en passant ever as there's no piece there to capture.

stiggling

d5 is legal and black wins, are these semantic arguments supposed to be riddles or something?

I still don't understand this topic. The only time I can imagine this argument taking place is at a scholastic tournament, so the answer to emu's question is that the adult tournament director, who is probably even lower rated than the 800 kids, would award them both a win, and they'd even get to play each other again, because tournaments like that don't even use ratings, or a pairing system, or a clock, or a scoresheet... what the hell is this topic?

ThrillerFan

It is hilarious that this argument is going on.  En Passant is a move available when legal.  There is no rule against bypassing the capture square when taking en passant is illegal.

Here, taking en passant is illegal because White is in check and the en passant does not get White out of check.  There is no way and It is check mate.

 

There are 2 scenarios where en passant is illegal.  One is the pawn move is discovered check (along the rank or diagonal the pawn came from).  The other is that his pawn is pinned to the king.  For example, WK e1, WP e5, BQ e8, BP f7.  If 1...f7-f5, white cannot take en passant because the Queen pins the pawn to the king.

 

There is none of this exception crap or artificial  "pawn never made it to d5" crap.  The move ...d5 mates the White King.  Period, End of Story!

Scottrf

Yeah as said many times, everyone understands that's it's not possible...