FACT: You can't improve at chess

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JeffGreen333
TestPatzer wrote:

Chess is a learned skill.

The main factor in chess ability is how much work and study one puts into the game (and not just the quantity of study, but the quality of it, too).

When people point at kids and say, "These kids are becoming masters, so it shows that they're naturally talented!", what these people are conveniently leaving out is that those kids are also receiving professional coaching from titled masters on a regular basis, which is a considerable difference from the hobby players who're trying to figure it out on their own.

Great comment.  I agree.   

Ziryab
psylowade wrote:

This is going to be a very controversial post - but I strongly believe that once someone has a basic understanding of the game (knowing all the opening variations, basic strategies etc..) it's almost impossible to improve based on practice. I think we all have a natural ability that will dictate our skill level. It's why we see little kids rated as grandmasters but players who have put 20+ years in still struggle at 1500

This is why you see that majority of players, who have played for over 5 years ALWAYS hover around the same rating. You would think after 5 years of consistent practice the rating would gradually increase? 

Every single graph I've looked at at long term players is within 200 rating points. I.e. if someone is rated 1900 they will have hovered between 1800-2000 for their entire careers. It makes me believe chess is based on genetic intelligence you're born with and nothing more. Yes you can sharpen your skill but you're not going to go from struggling at 1000 to 2500 in 10 years.

I know the majority of you are thinking "what an idiot of course you can improve" - Show me a graph of a player who has consistently improved over time. It doesn't exist. It's usually rapid increase or decrease at the beginning then just hovering around a rating forever. Give me a player profile graph and show me slow, long term improvement

 

I suppose this graph proves your point.

NilsIngemar

To get better at chess you must learn to do something different.

dmilloc

Talent and natural skill is what mediocre people say that you have after you spent years of preparation. There's no "natural limit", the limits are almost always a matter of training errors, not focusing in what you need to improve, the lack of a good trainer, not enough time to dedicate, etc. The majority of GMs and IMs are people with average inteligence who were passionate about the game and prepare theirselves all their lives. Only few people may have some natural condition that brings them to be Super GMs. But even if a ordinary person gets to Super GM people will say that it was due to a "natural condition". It is just an excuse to be mediocre. "Oh, I can't get better because mother nature don't let me".

About the age, there are so many examples of people getting to GMs, even after his 70s, so that isn't an excuse neither.

JeffGreen333
dmilloc wrote:

Talent and natural skill is what mediocre people say that you have after you spent years of preparation. There's no "natural limit", the limits are almost always a matter of training errors, not focusing in what you need to improve, the lack of a good trainer, not enough time to dedicate, etc. The majority of GMs and IMs are people with average inteligence who were passionate about the game and prepare theirselves all their lives. Only few people may have some natural condition that brings them to be Super GMs. But even if a ordinary person gets to Super GM people will say that it was due to a "natural condition". It is just an excuse to be mediocre. "Oh, I can't get better because mother nature don't let me".

About the age, there are so many examples of people getting to GMs, even after his 70s, so that isn't an excuse neither.

Then how is it that only Super-GMs (Like Magnus and Hikaru) can win while playing blindfolded?   I wouldn't make it past move 3 blindfolded.   Not everyone has an eidetic or photographic memory.

NilsIngemar

Physical and mental are very similar in nature. Just as some have the skills to be a top professional athlete, so is the same for chess. Some are born with the skills and talent to achieve top rankings.

 

But the rest of us are the people who can get better, just never top notch. 

destroyer8470_Inactive

This man wants a graph? I got one!

Actually three

Please, prove me wrong


MovedtoLiches
I’ll check back with some data in a couple of years. I started in July.
JeffGreen333
destroyer8470 wrote:

This man wants a graph? I got one!

Actually three

Please, prove me wrong

That's awesome improvement, if it's accurate.   I think my initial ratings were 1400 though.   How did you start with 500 and 1000?   Did you select beginner or novice when you registered?   I think I selected intermediate.   If you really were an intermediate, but you selected beginner or novice as your estimated strength, then your graphs won't be an accurate indication of your improvement.   

dharmik_jasper

360 days of chess  pls join my club u will have a lot of fun

there will be daily puzzles

daily tournaments 

every weak there will be lucky draw 

anyone one can write blogs 

daily there will be vote chess

daily team chess

and we will challenge other clubs every weak

and we will give different position to every one 

the people who join quick and invite more than 100 player will get diamond membership 

and we have many world wide partners 

if u have a ur  own club we will partnership ur club

dharmik_jasper

and donot forget to friend request @dharmik_jasper

LeventK11111111

I do.

dharmik_jasper

then pls join

 

nexim
JeffGreen333 wrote:
dmilloc wrote:

Talent and natural skill is what mediocre people say that you have after you spent years of preparation. There's no "natural limit", the limits are almost always a matter of training errors, not focusing in what you need to improve, the lack of a good trainer, not enough time to dedicate, etc. The majority of GMs and IMs are people with average inteligence who were passionate about the game and prepare theirselves all their lives. Only few people may have some natural condition that brings them to be Super GMs. But even if a ordinary person gets to Super GM people will say that it was due to a "natural condition". It is just an excuse to be mediocre. "Oh, I can't get better because mother nature don't let me".

About the age, there are so many examples of people getting to GMs, even after his 70s, so that isn't an excuse neither.

Then how is it that only Super-GMs (Like Magnus and Hikaru) can win while playing blindfolded?   I wouldn't make it past move 3 blindfolded.   Not everyone has an eidetic or photographic memory.


You don't need an eidetic or photographic memory to play blindfolded. You just need to practice visualization. When I started learning visualization I could barely get a few moves in before losing track of the pieces. But the more you practice the easier it gets. I'm still not a great blindfold player by any means, but I was able to beat my beginner friend playing blindfolded in a game that lasted almost 20 moves. If I was able to go from completely unable to visualize the board to play a full (albeit short) chess game with a reasonable level in about a few months of practice, I see no reason why I couldn't improve my ability to play blindfolded as I practice both my chess and my visualization skills.

How I learned it? I started doing visualization exercises (there are couple good courses on Chessable), where you need to solve a tactic a few moves in the future from the position based on given moves (that you don't have already on the board) and by simply starting to play games blindfolded and setting myself small goals like "I want to remember the position of all pieces at least until move 10" and then slowly increasing the number of moves as I was getting futher.

Playing blindfolded, while seems almost like a magic trick of a genius, is actually doable by anyone with enough exercise. Of course most people refuse to do the exercises, because it's extremely taxing mentally, and instead try to make it seem like a magic trick that is only possible for a selected few with these "inhuman" abilities.

And when it comes to this topic I started playing chess exactly 3 years ago and my lowest rating was 671 on this site on my first account. Now I'm playing at a 1800+ level. Despite learning the game well into my 20s. I believe that I can still push my rating quite a bit higher in the coming years, if I just keep practicing on a daily basis. Of course you can improve at the game, and anyone who says otherwise is just making up excuses to avoid doing the hard work it takes to improve at anything.

sndeww

The last time I saw this forum I was like a 2000. Now...

Ziryab
B1ZMARK wrote:

The last time I saw this forum I was like a 2000. Now...

 

 

What's your secret? That's an impressive rise over one year.

sndeww
Ziryab wrote:
B1ZMARK wrote:

The last time I saw this forum I was like a 2000. Now...

 

 

What's your secret? That's an impressive rise over one year.

spend all my time reading chess books LOL

destroyer8470_Inactive
JeffGreen333 wrote:
destroyer8470 wrote:

This man wants a graph? I got one!

Actually three

Please, prove me wrong

That's awesome improvement, if it's accurate.   I think my initial ratings were 1400 though.   How did you start with 500 and 1000?   Did you select beginner or novice when you registered?   I think I selected intermediate.   If you really were an intermediate, but you selected beginner or novice as your estimated strength, then your graphs won't be an accurate indication of your improvement.   

I actually choose intermediate when I signed up, before chess.com I just played at my primary school and if you check the games, I really was the bad at the start xD

JeffGreen333
destroyer8470 wrote:
JeffGreen333 wrote:
destroyer8470 wrote:

This man wants a graph? I got one!

Actually three

Please, prove me wrong

That's awesome improvement, if it's accurate.   I think my initial ratings were 1400 though.   How did you start with 500 and 1000?   Did you select beginner or novice when you registered?   I think I selected intermediate.   If you really were an intermediate, but you selected beginner or novice as your estimated strength, then your graphs won't be an accurate indication of your improvement.   

I actually choose intermediate when I signed up, before chess.com I just played at my primary school and if you check the games, I really was the bad at the start xD

Well, you really improved a lot in a short amount of time then.  Good job.   It took me 45 years to go from a 500 to an 1800 player.   You did it in 3 years.  

destroyer8470_Inactive
JeffGreen333 wrote:
destroyer8470 wrote:
JeffGreen333 wrote:
destroyer8470 wrote:

This man wants a graph? I got one!

Actually three

Please, prove me wrong

That's awesome improvement, if it's accurate.   I think my initial ratings were 1400 though.   How did you start with 500 and 1000?   Did you select beginner or novice when you registered?   I think I selected intermediate.   If you really were an intermediate, but you selected beginner or novice as your estimated strength, then your graphs won't be an accurate indication of your improvement.   

I actually choose intermediate when I signed up, before chess.com I just played at my primary school and if you check the games, I really was the bad at the start xD

Well, you really improved a lot in a short amount of time then.  Good job.   It took me 45 years to go from a 500 to an 1800 player.   You did it in 3 years.  

Thanks happy.png but it was probably a lot harder to improve when you started because there were a lot less resources, I'm open to so many resources!