FACT: You can't improve at chess

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Avatar of Adipat2006
SirGerhard wrote:

for my own pennies worth i agree with a lot of the comments here. i do think that however hard you work that aptitude plays a large part in improvement but it's also single-minded focus on the game. probably when i was younger there were people my age group who were ahead of me but i improved past them due to a single-minded focus on chess.

 

in my experience most if not all players who achieve grandmaster have at some point in their lives been obsessed with the game, even if in most cases that obsession seriously drops off once you have achieved your goals/realized there is more to life than moving pieces around the board.

 

i certainly don't do five to six hours study on chess now and probably never did, although i did do a lot more when i was younger. again, in my experience most gms don't really work that hard. it's probably only the very top players who maintain that single-minded obsession with the game, and even many of them become rather lazy over time. 

 

so although i recognise that working hard plays a large part, i do think talent plays some kind of role, and i've always been rather sceptical of these 10,000 hours claims, that seems more miserable than anything else, like a kind of chess version of the sisyphus rock. 

 

 

To be a GM, is a lot harder than just work hard, GM Whatever your name is. Iwas obssed in chess for like 2 years but little has changed.

Avatar of Chesslover0_0
Adipat2006 wrote:
SirGerhard wrote:

for my own pennies worth i agree with a lot of the comments here. i do think that however hard you work that aptitude plays a large part in improvement but it's also single-minded focus on the game. probably when i was younger there were people my age group who were ahead of me but i improved past them due to a single-minded focus on chess.

 

in my experience most if not all players who achieve grandmaster have at some point in their lives been obsessed with the game, even if in most cases that obsession seriously drops off once you have achieved your goals/realized there is more to life than moving pieces around the board.

 

i certainly don't do five to six hours study on chess now and probably never did, although i did do a lot more when i was younger. again, in my experience most gms don't really work that hard. it's probably only the very top players who maintain that single-minded obsession with the game, and even many of them become rather lazy over time. 

 

so although i recognise that working hard plays a large part, i do think talent plays some kind of role, and i've always been rather sceptical of these 10,000 hours claims, that seems more miserable than anything else, like a kind of chess version of the sisyphus rock. 

 

 

To be a GM, is a lot harder than just work hard, GM Whatever your name is. Iwas obssed in chess for like 2 years but little has changed.

I agree with everything you've said here.  I think no matter how hard you study you won't make it passed a certain level in Chess.  I think for some folks it's too late to be a GM, I'm one such person as I'm in my forties and didn't really start Chess until I was in about my mid 20s and even then I wasn't studying diligently like maybe I should have.  

I did have a love for the game though that I still have to this day, you're right though I don't think most people realize just how much work, dedication and overall time it takes to achieve the title of "Grandmaster" in Chess. 

Avatar of erikhelander

I suck at chess, but here are my two cents. I think chess could be compared to weight lifting. When people first start out they see rapid improvement (aka noob gains), but soon they realize that the time they put in is subject to the law of diminishing returns, i.e. the same amount of work no longer corresponds to the same amount of improvement. This is discouraging to most people, and probably the reason why people plateau in chess and weight lifting alike. Of course there are some inherent traits that make some people naturally good at chess, or make some people put on a crazy amount of muscle in no time, but with hard work I think anyone can reach a respectable level in both.

Avatar of Domi42

I'm justing putting this here, because Chess.com is deleting posts concerning this subject. Several players are compiling on how their ratings suddenly drop and people rated on a low level suddenly play above their level. Chess.com deletes topics on the subject instead of looking into it. I don't know how or where I can make a complaint about this, so I'm doing it this way.

 

Seriously, it's getting ridiculous this way.

Avatar of Chesslover0_0
erikhelander wrote:

I suck at chess, but here are my two cents. I think chess could be compared to weight lifting. When people first start out they see rapid improvement (aka noob gains), but soon they realize that the time they put in is subject to the law of diminishing returns, i.e. the same amount of work no longer corresponds to the same amount of improvement. This is discouraging to most people, and probably the reason why people plateau in chess and weight lifting alike. Of course there are some inherent traits that make some people naturally good at chess, or make some people put on a crazy amount of muscle in no time, but with hard work I think anyone can reach a respectable level in both.

I don't think that's a fair comparison and trust me I know alot about both.  I'm by no means a "good" player but Chess is just like anything else, if you want to be a "good" player then you have to put the work in, it's really that simple.  The problem is people not willing to put the time in, ask yourself what are you doing seriously to improve. I mean I'm just saying ........

Avatar of Raffiboyadjian71888

This is bs…. It’s a slow grind but if you practice the right way you will improve, I was stuck on 1700 for like 3 years now I’m 1900 and I plan to get to 2200 one day , I have a friend who was stuck on 1800 for 4 years and now he’s an IM. I also know another guy who was stuck on 1800 for 2 years now he’s 2000 and I’ve seen plenty graphs of players online who gradually improved. How ever , some people do hit a ceiling. But not every one has a ceiling that they will ever reach some people have a ceiling that’s so high they’ll just never reach it so they keep slowly improving. 

Avatar of Kotshmot

People love to rationalize things (like not making progress) coming up with their own theories, no matter how illogical they are as long as it supports their narrative

Avatar of 02aje96

I remember reading somewhere that chess grandmasters are extremely good at quickly memorizing the positioning of every piece in positions which are seen in real games compared to regular people.
But then as soon as they're both presented with piece positions never seen in real games there is no distinction between the speed a chess grandmaster memorizing and a regular person.
Chess grandmasters have no correlation with any other typical intelligent metric, such as iq or academics etc.
Often times when presented with positions chess grandmasters are able to identify what game the position is from etc. So possibly they retain things more often in a story like format?

So my conclusion is it's likely similar to language learning, where overwhelmingly most people who are fluent in a language are those who learn it at young age, but anyone can become fluent if they approach learning in the correct way. 

I suspect sudden intense exposure and consistent comprehensible guidance is necessary to improve else much like watching anime with subtitles or spending a week learning a language only to give up and repeat from start a year later, you'll likely feel your skills are stagnant.

But this is just my thoughts on the topic.

Avatar of Duck

@ChessBrainiac's blitz graph: 

Avatar of Optimissed

Fact .... op is silly

Avatar of magipi

Some troll thread are incredibly resilient. This thread was started in 2017, and the hypothesis of the OP was immediately debunked in the very first reply. Still, somehow the whole thing is still running more than 5 years later.

Avatar of Optimissed
GraveMurky wrote:



   But you touch on a good point because thats why almost all GM's and coaches will tell players not to bother reading books to study theory or advanced strategies  until they are at least 2000 FIDE rated which most people will never get.    Because if you are still hanging pieces and failing at the basics there is no point.


You don't hang pieces and fail at the basics when you're 1999. 2000 is 50 more than I ever achieved, although I was probably playing at. 2050 at some stage.

Avatar of Sammy_Thechessboy

Here's just my improvement graph at blitz all-time on this website. I worked hard to improve at chess, and it worked. Guess what- I did improve, even with my principles. I was around 700 when I started, now I'm a proud 1650. People might still call me an amateur, but I'm at least a determined learner.

btw, don't judge my background. It's from almost a year ago, but I'm too lazy to change it lol.

Avatar of henry-md
psylowade wrote:
Pashak1989 wrote:

You are right. Magnus Carlsen was born with a 2800+ rating. 


He had rapid improvement - which I explained in my post if you read it.

I'm asking for an example where it's SLOW and steady improvement over a long period of time

If you're looking for a graph that looks like a solid straight line, you're not going to find it. As rating linearly increases, the difficulty of getting further increase exponentially. So if you put in a consistent amount of work over time, you should see a logarithmic curve, not linear. If you squint at a logarithm I guess you could say "the jump happened all at once," but it's just a logarithm.

Avatar of dude0812

It took Carlsen 6 years to reach 2800 strength after he became a master and he had already played chess for several years before he became a master. What "quick improvement" the OP is talking about I don't know. 

Avatar of dude0812

2 and a half years ago I was stuck in mid 1500s blitz. Right now I am at low 1800s - high 1700s blitz on this website. That's a 250 points improvement in the last 2 and a half years. According to OP I should have been forever stuck on 1500 blitz rating and yet as of the moment of writing this comment I am rated 1826 blitz.

Avatar of dude0812
psylowade wrote:
Pashak1989 wrote:

You are right. Magnus Carlsen was born with a 2800+ rating. 


He had rapid improvement - which I explained in my post if you read it.

I'm asking for an example where it's SLOW and steady improvement over a long period of time

Carlsen's improvement is a slow and steady improvement over a long period of time.

Avatar of BlacMajik
psylowade wrote:

I'm just asking for the graph of 1 player... out of the millions of players that play on this website... that would show a slow and consistent improvement over years of time put in. 

It don't exist. If I study chess and sharpen my mind more I would be better. Yet most people who followed the trend to chess will never increase. I'm a lazy person who started playing chess because I am naturally an overconfident person. I don't like living realistically because I want to have things my way. Study to comprehend and understand that is way harder than just going at it any kind of way. I hate reality. Lol good luck

Avatar of Pawn_nga_bato

The safest thinking process about this critical thinking is to think that "there should be a mistake in your training process, one should know what to study and how." Knowing how to know this fact is what should a chess player should solve in order to avoid stagnation. Nevertheless, let us just play, challenge me and let's have some fun chessers

Avatar of BigChessplayer665
Metanoians wrote:

The safest thinking process about this critical thinking is to think that "there should be a mistake in your training process, one should know what to study and how." Knowing how to know this fact is what should a chess player should solve in order to avoid stagnation. Nevertheless, let us just play, challenge me and let's have some fun chessers

If your not improving you need to change something up and hat may cause you to lose more games sort term but continue trying till you figure eor something that works

Also if you want a graph of consistently improving overtime I'm a good example (humans themselves aren't super consistent though sometimes )

Not everyone improves some people get stuck but not everyone gets unstuck that's the hard part figure out how to get unstuck in progress