“FIDE bans transgender women from competing in women’s chess events pending ‘further analysis’“

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lonniespiel

@ethan_brolliee

A legally transitioned woman, is legally a woman. The biological birth factor has nothing to do with this. If someone legally identifies as a woman, then it would be discriminatory to consider them any thing other than a woman. They should have the same rights as other biologically born women.

Uk Labour spokesperson Angela Raynor confirmed this yesterday, but added that biologically born women's spaces should also be supported. The issue is not whether to include transwomen, but how to find ways to develop safe spaces which make all competitors comfortable.

In that respect, FIDE should be addressing the problem with sexual harassment and not a phantom issue that’s merely speculation and nigh upon impossible at that.

jay_1944
lonniespiel wrote:

@ethan_brolliee

A legally transitioned woman, is legally a woman. The biological birth factor has nothing to do with this. If someone legally identifies as a woman, then it would be discriminatory to consider them any thing other than a woman. They should have the same rights as other biologically born women.

Uk Labour spokesperson Angela Raynor confirmed this yesterday, but added that biologically born women's spaces should also be supported. The issue is not whether to include transwomen, but how to find ways to develop safe spaces which make all competitors comfortable.

In that respect, FIDE should be addressing the problem with sexual harassment and not a phantom issue that’s merely speculation and nigh upon impossible at that.

A naturally born male transition to female. They join weightlifting and break every record, and win every competition, giving any natural born female zero chance of winning now.

How is that fair?

Ethan_Brollier
PIaneswalker wrote:
Ethan_Brollier wrote:
PIaneswalker wrote:
chesstenor2018 wrote:
Ethan, there’s no difference in IQ or intelligence between men or women, period.

Technically, this is incorrect.

For the average population it’s correct. Men tend towards the 1% on both sides while women tend towards the 50 but if you picked 100 men and 100 women you should end up with very very similar average IQ.

I like your profile picture, by the way.

Thanks man, same to you! And yep, you're right.

Lol I went to send you a friend request and it just accepted the one you sent me because you hear me to it.

GYG

MaiEien
Ethan_Brollier wrote:

What is relevant is the fact that transgender women have men’s brains,

What is really relevant, is that there is scientific evidence, that especially brains of transgender women are more close to women brains then men brains, and that might or might not be the real reason of gender dysphoria. So no, IM Hans Niemann wouldn't become WGM Hannah Niemann because he will not. Just won't, trust me. Gender dysphoria is a real thing, not some imagination broding, someone either have it and haven't.

MaiEien
PIaneswalker wrote:
MaiEien wrote:
Ethan_Brollier wrote:

What is relevant is the fact that transgender women have men’s brains,

What is really relevant, is that there is scientific evidence, that especially brains of transgender women are more close to women brains then men brains, and that might or might not be the real reason of gender dysphoria. So no, IM Hans Niemann wouldn't become WGM Hannah Niemann because he will not. Just won't, trust me. Gender dysphoria is a real thing, not some imagination broding, someone either have it and haven't.

Really. Show me the evidence.

should I point you to "google it for me" sites?

lonniespiel

We're talking chess here, not weightlifting.

Ethan_Brollier
lonniespiel wrote:

@ethan_brolliee

A legally transitioned woman, is legally a woman. The biological birth factor has nothing to do with this. If someone legally identifies as a woman, then it would be discriminatory to consider them any thing other than a woman. They should have the same rights as other biologically born women.

Uk Labour spokesperson Angela Raynor confirmed this yesterday, but added that biologically born women's spaces should also be supported. The issue is not whether to include transwomen, but how to find ways to develop safe spaces which make all competitors comfortable.

In that respect, FIDE should be addressing the problem with sexual harassment and not a phantom issue that’s merely speculation and nigh upon impossible at that.

I’m not fully on board with your first point here. Being biological males but legally women, there are some legal rights which exist in a grey area. There are a plethora of protections set up in essentially every society to protect women from men, as they are the weaker sex. Transwomen, not being the weaker sex, should not be afforded these legal protections and if caught oppressing or assaulting a woman or women in any manner should be sentenced as a man.

I agree with your second point. A transwomen who is uncomfortable in a men’s bathroom should not be allowed in the women’s room, but I am perfectly happy with there being a separate transwomen’s room.

If I could see evidence of this alleged sexual assault, I would agree. Any sexual assault should be treated with the utmost seriousness.

MaiEien
PIaneswalker wrote:
MaiEien wrote:
PIaneswalker wrote:
MaiEien wrote:
Ethan_Brollier wrote:

What is relevant is the fact that transgender women have men’s brains,

What is really relevant, is that there is scientific evidence, that especially brains of transgender women are more close to women brains then men brains, and that might or might not be the real reason of gender dysphoria. So no, IM Hans Niemann wouldn't become WGM Hannah Niemann because he will not. Just won't, trust me. Gender dysphoria is a real thing, not some imagination broding, someone either have it and haven't.

Really. Show me the evidence.

should I point you to "google it for me" sites?

Please link the studies that prove the validity of your claims.

First link in google, ok. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8955456/

jay_1944
lonniespiel wrote:

We're talking chess here, not weightlifting.

Then change each "weightlifting" to "chess". Same premise happy.png

Don't know why I'm arguing this. Reallllly bored tonight Lol

Zardorian
Again, there is no difference in IQ or intelligence between women and men. Just because statistics show that on average men may have done better than women at chess doesn’t mean that they should be separated. Many factors are involved. The gap between men and women in chess has been narrowing in recent years. This may be due to a number of factors, including increased participation of women in chess, more opportunities for women to train and compete, and changes in attitudes towards women in chess.
Ethan_Brollier
MaiEien wrote:
Ethan_Brollier wrote:

What is relevant is the fact that transgender women have men’s brains,

What is really relevant, is that there is scientific evidence, that especially brains of transgender women are more close to women brains then men brains, and that might or might not be the real reason of gender dysphoria. So no, IM Hans Niemann wouldn't become WGM Hannah Niemann because he will not. Just won't, trust me. Gender dysphoria is a real thing, not some imagination broding, someone either have it and haven't.

If memory serves, these studies were sponsored by large pharmaceutical companies who not only directly profit from gender dysphoria by selling hormones but also have been proven to falsify studies in the past.

Zardorian
Jay, 1944 says, “FIDE bans transgender women from competing in women’s chess events pending ‘further analysis’“

Good!”

I say Jay 1944 is a bigot: BAD.
jay_1944
chesstenor2018 wrote:
Jay, 1944 says, “FIDE bans transgender women from competing in women’s chess events pending ‘further analysis’“
Good!”
I say Jay 1944 is a bigot: BAD.

We have different opinions. I feel men and women sports should be seperate because we are not made equal. You feel men and women should compete together. Okay cool, your opinion is fine. Now how am I a horrible person for having my opinion?

jay_1944

I'm really just sick of people who hate other people for not agreeing with them sad.png

Ethan_Brollier
chesstenor2018 wrote:
Again, there is no difference in IQ or intelligence between women and men. Just because statistics show that on average men may have done better than women at chess doesn’t mean that they should be separated. Many factors are involved. The gap between men and women in chess has been narrowing in recent years. This may be due to a number of factors, including increased participation of women in chess, more opportunities for women to train and compete, and changes in attitudes towards women in chess.

I disagree with the premise and conclusion.
The statistics don’t show that on average men are stronger than women in chess, it shows that at the top 1% men are stronger than women in chess. 
And they should be segregated, so as to give the women a fair shot to compete against fair competition and then be congratulated duly for their achievements.

Zardorian
Ethan, you’re just quoting soundbites from the conservative echo chamber. If you simply follow the edict that men and women are equal in intelligence, then everything else is moot
Zardorian
For all those throwing wrestling, and other things into the mix, we’re talking about Chess.
MaiEien
Ethan_Brollier wrote:
MaiEien wrote:
Ethan_Brollier wrote:

What is relevant is the fact that transgender women have men’s brains,

What is really relevant, is that there is scientific evidence, that especially brains of transgender women are more close to women brains then men brains, and that might or might not be the real reason of gender dysphoria. So no, IM Hans Niemann wouldn't become WGM Hannah Niemann because he will not. Just won't, trust me. Gender dysphoria is a real thing, not some imagination broding, someone either have it and haven't.

If memory serves, these studies were sponsored by large pharmaceutical companies who not only directly profit from gender dysphoria by selling hormones but also have been proven to falsify studies in the past.

I have quite the contrary information, that the research was genuine, and no additional interest was involved. Please prove your statements.
Of course evidence is incomplete, and as far as I know there is no definite scientific results, just pointers. But blanket statements in this thread, that transgender women are "biologically" men are much much worse.

Ethan_Brollier
chesstenor2018 wrote:
Ethan, you’re just quoting soundbites from the conservative echo chamber. If you simply follow the edict that men and women are equal in intelligence, then everything else is moot

I am not. I resent the accusation. I disagree with the premise.

Men and women are not equal in intelligence at all levels. On average, they are. The 1% is dominated by men and the bottom 1% is dominated by men. Look anywhere and you’ll find this to be true. Most valedictorians and saluditorians are men, most college dropouts are men. Most famous people throughout history have been men, most homeless people are men. I could probably give examples until the sun rises but I’ll leave it here.

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