Fischer or Kasparov. Who's the best?

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goldendog

Capablanca and Alekhine played 50 games between them, and we have a bunch of games that Lasker played with them (mostly Capa) as well, but not even one Fischer-Karpov game.

It doesn't seem likely that Fischer could have held it together and been stable enough to play Karpov for many years, and then Kasparov, but if he had we'd have been enjoyng our own modern "Big 3" era.

No such luck though.

Ricardo_Morro

With great respect for NM Reb, a comparison of longevity between Lasker and Kasparov is misplaced. Lasker did not have to defend his title every three years and he did not always have to face the best challenger as selected by candidates' matches. The conditions of the longevity matter. Kasparov's reign is unparallelled both for the amount of chess and for the quality of opposition he had to play in order to continue it. And the grueling matches with Karpov were truly epic; Lasker never had to face anything like that.

I tend to agree with maestro Reb, however, about Fischer's strength in his prime. There were enough players who overlapped Fischer's and Kasparov's careers that a worthwhile comparison can be made based on common opponents.

Atos
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Atos
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AlexNucker
Russian_Boy wrote:

On the top of that Fischer has never defended his title. We do not know the reason, but it is just a mere and undisputable fact. As for Kasparov he did actually defend his title many times, two last winning matches were performed in a brilliant manner: 6-1 with Short (that is very similar to Fischer's 7-3 over Spassky) and 4-1 with Anand. And his world championship matches against Karpov is a basis of modern chess, I am pretty sure it is the highest level of chess humanity can ever achieve. Fischer simply did not have so strong opponent in his time.

Some people state that Fischer is stronger than Kasparov due to his rating scored at 2785 in 1972, and with inflation it would be 2900 today which is higher that Kasparov's performance (2851). First, we do not know the real scope of inflation, it is just guessing. Second (and more important), I believe that if Kasparov played in his candidate matches against, say, Shirov, Gelfand and Ivanchuk, and World championship match against Anand, his rating would likely to be even more than 2900. Simply because he has exceptionnaly huge plus against all of them; with Gelfand and Shirov he was undefeated. Third, Karpov won Linares in 1994 with outstanding performance scoring 3000 points! Does it mean that Karpov is the strongest player in history? No, I do not think so.

These comparisons are not appropriate because the two are better in different times. I recognize that Fischer is a very unstable because its history and the games shown. I am inclined to Kasparov is more open and balanced.

orangehonda

[in horror movie voice] Oh my god no... IT LIVES!

goldendog

Yeah really. i was hoping it had somehow staked itself in the heart.

lostgame
Deranged wrote:

Kasparov, Kasparov, Kasparov.

Kasparov was better than Karpov and I would probably rank Karpov in the top 3 best chess players of all time.

The reason that Fischer is so popular is because:

1: He is American and so are you, therefore you feel more inspired by him. I don't mean this in a racist way so please do not take offence to it. I have nothing against Americans.

2: He was a risk-taker and came out with some excellent wins which most people would never have noticed. He also played very agressive and risky gambits.


 Class post this one. In itself epitomizes the futility and sheer stupidity of discussions such as this. Yeah right ... RJF was a " risk taker " ... played too many " risky" gambits ...  .. yeah right. Embarrassing.

lostgame

Fischer is the greatest because he changed chess forever.. more than any player before , or since.

lostgame

Oh and @ Deranged.... RJF was obsessed with 'control'... he avoided risk , for control of the board. Cut down his opponents options, sucked the life out of the position, for control... and the win. And his energy and willpower powered this through to the the skin and bones of endgames which 'normal' players would've long given up as drawn... This conbination of relentless energy, and absolute quest for perfect control over the 64 squares , gave him an aura of invincibility and made him an extremely unpleasant opponent ,even for the the very best.

 

Spassky and Tal and Petrosian and Smyslov were all giants... titans... ofcourse inflation exists in chess ratings.. just like it does fiscally. It's undeniable. These giants from the post war period would all be plus 2750 now... Only fools would argue with that. Fuelled with ignorance.

lostgame

It might be a two year old thread but chess, forgive me, has been around alot longer than the net. This debate will outlive this little thread.

X_Storm_X

FISCHER FOREVER!!THE GREATEST  PLAYER OF ALL TIME!!!ONLY BOBBY

dannyhume

I dunno...Fischer nearly exclusively played 1.e4 and feared Karpov.  

Kasparov can play any opening and does not fear being at the top.  

Fischer with the same repertoire as Kasparov vs. Kasparov = tough one.  

Fischer vs. Kasparov in chess960 = tough one.  

milsrilion

Kasparov is the greatest of all time at winning games, but Fischer is the greatest chess player of all-time.

milsrilion
Fiveofswords wrote:

Computers are the best. So what.


But that question leads to a totally other discussion. :D

pdela

ufff I'm too lazy to read any answer with more than ten words for a question like that. They had not played one against the other, no?

so kasparov

nor

bobby fischer

eXecute

I don't think anyone can doubt Fischer's genius. While Fischer was obsessed with the game and had no form of social life, Kasparov lived somewhat like a celebrity, always traveling etc. Both were extremely good, but Fischer was a bit insane, that gives him an edge.

Atos
Schachgeek wrote:

Kasparov, obviously as he is still alive.

Fischer died some time ago.

But if you had a time machine and could have both players meet in their prime Fischer would stomp Kasparov in a match.


 Of course, a correspondence player would stomp both.

Viau_A

Why doesn't anybody speak of Anand? isn't he the current world champion? Isn't he really really good?

dannyhume

Anand- being the most recent champion and crusher of Kramnik who beat Kasparov who beat Karpov, whom Fischer was afraid to play even though he crushed Spassky, who beat Petrosian, who ended Botvinnik's reign which enveloped Smyslov's and Tal's reigns and which began after Alekhine died as the champ, but only because he ducked Capa, who crushed Lasker, who crushed Steinitz who would have been crushed by Morphy had he not got bored crushing the rest of the world- is technically the best of all time if you put everyone up head to head with the knowledge they had.  

Talent-wise, he may be as good as anyone, but how the hell would I know?