Unfortunately Magnus just lost his semi final against Nepo. The final tomorrow will be Naka vs Nepo and The Magster will play Nodi for 3rd and 4th. Wesley So plays Bluebaum for 5th and 6th. I can't remember the other 2 cellar dwellers.
Fischer Random (chess 960) is a better measure of ability
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DreamscapeHorizons wrote:
Unfortunately Magnus just lost his semi final against Nepo.
I'm sure the win was a moral victory for Nepo. You could say he redeemed himself against Carlsen ... avenging his World Championship performance.
Hikaru dominated Ian, in Game 1. Some very pretty tactics.
Ian seemed unsure of how to develop his pieces / unable to find a logical structure. Hikaru, meanwhile, seemed to have the initiative throughout most of the game.
Oct 30, 2022
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#25
IronSteam1 wrote:
Hikaru dominated Ian, in Game 1. Some very pretty tactics.
Ian seemed unsure of how to develop his pieces / unable to find a logical structure. Hikaru, meanwhile, seemed to have the initiative throughout most of the game.
I wonder how much of that skill is connected to blitz.
In blitz you have to make a lot of practical decisions, including in the opening. I imagine Hikaru has hundreds of internalized "tricks" for finding reasonable moves quickly.
llama36 wrote:
I wonder how much of that skill is connected to blitz.
In blitz you have to make a lot of practical decisions, including in the opening. I imagine Hikaru has hundreds of internalized "tricks" for finding reasonable moves quickly.
You're probably right.
He's also spent a lot of time doing strange blitz challenges for his viewers - playing the Bongcloud only, playing with Queen-sac only, playing "dubious gambits" only (stuff like that) ... a lot time spent playing from strange, non-repertoire positions. I'm betting it has helped his positional understanding, in a lot of ways.
Oct 30, 2022
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#27
Yeah, but Magnus's memory is part of his chess playing ability, and it's what makes him great.
llama36 wrote:
IronSteam1 wrote:
Hikaru dominated Ian, in Game 1. Some very pretty tactics.
Ian seemed unsure of how to develop his pieces / unable to find a logical structure. Hikaru, meanwhile, seemed to have the initiative throughout most of the game.
I wonder how much of that skill is connected to blitz.
In blitz you have to make a lot of practical decisions, including in the opening. I imagine Hikaru has hundreds of internalized "tricks" for finding reasonable moves quickly.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Nakamura seems to have the unusual ability of "sight of board" where he can instantly see positions and tactics that takes other very strong GM's longer to find. If played at longer time controls Magnus would probably dominate the same way he does in classical chess. Classical time controls seem to be Nakamura's kryptonite at the highest level.
Yasser Seirawan told of an incident where Fischer was on a chess team in some country in South America I believe where in between games, the four players on the American team would go to Fischer's suite to analyze games. In one game Fischer was analyzing he practically got into a belly laugh because of a move his opponent made and no one could figure out why it was a bad move. Even Robert Byrne who was one of the top players in the world at that time didn't see what Fischer was seeing so he went along with the laugh to not look stupid.
Until they start using classical time controls where the players have time to analyze the games properly over the board, Fischer Random Chess will be nothing but a mockery of what it should be.
Carlsen lost the first game to Abdusattorov. This one was a back-and-forth battle the whole way.
Carlsen had one winning chance (a temporary knight sac with ...Nxg4 at move 43), but he missed it (or saw it, but decided against it).
Naka and Nepo are tied 1.5 to 1.5.
They're in the final game now, battling for the Championship title. 
IronSteam1 wrote:
Naka and Nepo are tied 1.5 to 1.5.
They're in the final game now, battling for the Championship title.
Naka and Nepo tied the Rapid set: 2 to 2
Now the title will come down to an Armageddon game (Black gets less time, but only needs a draw; White gets full time, but must win at all costs). 
They each have been given 5 minutes, after seeing the opening setup, to prep.
Wesley So is discussing the opening setup with Hikaru, at a board ...
I didn't see who Nepo discussed the setup with ...
Hikaru has white, and must win at all costs.
Ian has black, and only needs a draw.
Hikaru is leaning back in his chair - his typical body language when he feels confident that he's better on the board. Eval says +1.3 in his favor ...
Hikaru Nakamura is the new Fischer Random World Champion.
Oct 31, 2022
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#35
My initial takeaway from the entire event was that Magnus really is overrated. To lose/choke away winning positions against Nepo and then lose to an 18 year old…. How is this the greatest chess player of all time?
I then watched the entire Lex Fridman interview with magnus and he spoke on the issue. He said he wished they would play Fischer 360 with classical time controls, which I totally understand. Magnus needs more time to demonstrate his brilliance and abilities. Playing rapid time control doesn’t allow him to utilize his superior skills.
So my final takeaway is that magnus would win Fischer 360 every time if they played classic time controls. But I’m not 100% certain that players of the past like Morphy, Capablanca, Kasparov, Fischer wouldn’t be as good or better at this variant that relies more on positional understanding and tactics then openings and theory.
I then watched the entire Lex Fridman interview with magnus and he spoke on the issue. He said he wished they would play Fischer 360 with classical time controls, which I totally understand. Magnus needs more time to demonstrate his brilliance and abilities. Playing rapid time control doesn’t allow him to utilize his superior skills.
So my final takeaway is that magnus would win Fischer 360 every time if they played classic time controls. But I’m not 100% certain that players of the past like Morphy, Capablanca, Kasparov, Fischer wouldn’t be as good or better at this variant that relies more on positional understanding and tactics then openings and theory.
Oct 31, 2022
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#36
Also, how much MORE fun was this event to watch?! Seeing the crazy tactics and insane positions is quite literally 1000x more exciting, fun, and interesting than still being in theory on move 23 of a match after 90 minutes, to eventually end in a draw where no one took any risks.
Every single game of Fischer Random is interesting. Every one. Meanwhile maybe 1/10 standard chess games are worthy of an Agadmator video recap.
Every single game of Fischer Random is interesting. Every one. Meanwhile maybe 1/10 standard chess games are worthy of an Agadmator video recap.
The main difference is in classical chess at the elite level the game doesn't start until after move 20. In Fischer Random the game starts at move one. In 2018 between Carlsen and Fabiano Caruana the match ended with 12 consecutive draws in classical time controls. At that level chess has become much like checkers. In professional checkers the first three moves are drawn at random from a set of accepted openings to reduce draws.
There has never been a top level chess 960 tournament at classical time controls so it will be interesting if it takes much of the "boring" (Magnus' own words) aspect out in the current tournament. They are still in the rapid portion to determine seeding before they start the knockout rounds in classical time controls.
ZeeGeeZ wrote:
Wesley So has crushed magnus and the field in this format for the past two years. Given that fact, how is Wesley not objectively the most purely skilled chess player?
By removing all opening prep, you are neutralizing Magnus’ greatest advantage and weapon — his beyond photographic memory when it pertains to chess positions and theory. He remembers every position he has ever seen. That’s an insurmountable advantage when applied to both opening theory and pawn endgames.
Fisher 360 puts all players on an even playing field. It is so much purer than each player knowing the first 20+ moves by memory because a computer told them it’s ideal. That’s so lame and unimaginative. It’s honestly depressing how repetitive and drawish chess has become.
Magnus is the GOAT and best in the world at chess largely because of his memory — not purely because of his chess abilities. But when we put the starting pieces in a totally random position and play…. the guy who keeps winning is clearly “better” than the guy he beats, and that fact can ONLY be attributed to superior talent, intuition, and/or creativity.
It seems that Fischer random is looked down upon as an inferior or silly version of the game, when in reality how can you argue that it’s not a better and purer measurement of playing ability?
By removing all opening prep, you are neutralizing Magnus’ greatest advantage and weapon — his beyond photographic memory when it pertains to chess positions and theory. He remembers every position he has ever seen. That’s an insurmountable advantage when applied to both opening theory and pawn endgames.
Fisher 360 puts all players on an even playing field. It is so much purer than each player knowing the first 20+ moves by memory because a computer told them it’s ideal. That’s so lame and unimaginative. It’s honestly depressing how repetitive and drawish chess has become.
Magnus is the GOAT and best in the world at chess largely because of his memory — not purely because of his chess abilities. But when we put the starting pieces in a totally random position and play…. the guy who keeps winning is clearly “better” than the guy he beats, and that fact can ONLY be attributed to superior talent, intuition, and/or creativity.
It seems that Fischer random is looked down upon as an inferior or silly version of the game, when in reality how can you argue that it’s not a better and purer measurement of playing ability?
You cannot have a "beyond photographic memory". 
Mar 7, 2024
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#39
@FrancisWeed, I have started a petition on these forums to do exactly what you are saying. Search "petition quick action 960" on chess.com forums. Have really enjoyed this discussion. Gotta say tho, the part about Magnus not being the best 960 player hasn't aged well. Lol. But I agree this variant deserves more recognition, and more visibility on the app. Thank you all.
By removing all opening prep, you are neutralizing Magnus’ greatest advantage and weapon — his beyond photographic memory when it pertains to chess positions and theory. He remembers every position he has ever seen. That’s an insurmountable advantage when applied to both opening theory and pawn endgames.
Fisher 360 puts all players on an even playing field. It is so much purer than each player knowing the first 20+ moves by memory because a computer told them it’s ideal. That’s so lame and unimaginative. It’s honestly depressing how repetitive and drawish chess has become.
Magnus is the GOAT and best in the world at chess largely because of his memory — not purely because of his chess abilities. But when we put the starting pieces in a totally random position and play…. the guy who keeps winning is clearly “better” than the guy he beats, and that fact can ONLY be attributed to superior talent, intuition, and/or creativity.
It seems that Fischer random is looked down upon as an inferior or silly version of the game, when in reality how can you argue that it’s not a better and purer measurement of playing ability?
I haven't played any 3-day for about 8 months and the first game I'm playing on my return is a friendly Chess960 3-day, but played at a fast pace. Really enjoying it. I played 17 previously and at first found it extremely difficult. Won 16, drew 1. From that I would think that others find it harder than I do. After 16 or 20 moves it usually looks more like a normal game. Strangely, I found that to be when people make their losing bunders. I don't think that Carlsen is just a memory. I think he has Capablanca's ability.