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Forced Checkmate/ Resign Button

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clms_chess
clms_chess
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Dec 11, 2010
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#21
El_Senior wrote:

This is a bad idea. If the conditional move program is taught to detect/find checkmates...people will cheat by using it to find mates, or to improve a line when they can smell a mate but can't find one. 

 I understand what your saying and thanks for responding. See my previous post where the conditions for this might work.  

clms_chess
clms_chess
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Dec 11, 2010
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#22
jim995 wrote:

Just do conditional moves or play it, because maybe you missed a move or thought that it wasn't a forced mate when it really was (allowing an unfairly won game).

 Jim you are right... and many of us do just that... I do. The reason though I thought about having this option is for those last few games in group play where the game has been decided and is down to a few obvious check mate pattern moves... but the opponent will not resign. Most of us have been a part of very large tournys where all the 50+ groups have finished group play except for one or two and the games are drwan out which adds weeks (or months) for everyone else to move on to the next round.

Dragec
Dragec
Dec 11, 2010
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#23
I think you are missing the point. By asking someone (or chess.com computer) to verify your "forced line" is asking for outside help(or engine use), and that is forbidden.
Dragec
Dragec
Dec 11, 2010
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#24

Yep, and if the player is wrong, than he has received valuable advice from an engine.

It would be a nice way to test semi-sound sacrifices, and let the computer test it for you.

So, you would announce :"I have a forced checkmate in 6 moves starting with Rxf6+" , and the computer would say : "but your line is faulty, instead of 4. ...Kg7, black can play Bg7 which holds". And you wouldn't start the sequence at all, and you got a free advice.

clms_chess
clms_chess
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Dec 11, 2010
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#25
Dragec wrote:
I think you are missing the point. By asking someone (or chess.com computer) to verify your "forced line" is asking for outside help(or engine use), and that is forbidden.

 You are right... your point is taken. One reason I suggested this in the first place though was to find a way to speed up group play in large tournements and for it to be only available via the TD of the tourny choosing it. You know the scenerio... hundreds of games in group play have been finished having taken a year or so to complete.... with a couple games.... draaaagging on... even months.... from a routine mating pattern position.

Dragec
Dragec
Dec 11, 2010
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#26

And if computer shows you every possible move, then you would need really a lot of time to fill it in. In that case, engine can also present you some moves you did not consider.

And again, if you couldn't produce a mate, you got some free help.

Just mate the guy and you're done.

Please note that I support adjudication in case of stalling in lost positions, I just made some arguments as why a "force resign button" is a bad solution IMO.

It would be heavily abused, and it would create more headaches than stalling does.

clms_chess
clms_chess
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Dec 11, 2010
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#27
Dragec wrote:
And if computer shows you every possible move, then you would need really a lot of time to fill it in. In that case, engine can also present you some moves you did not consider. And again, if you couldn't produce a mate, you got some free help. Just mate the guy and you're done. Please note that I support adjudication in case of stalling in lost positions, I just made some arguments as why a "force resign button" is a bad solution IMO. It would be heavilly abused, and it would create more headaches than stalling does.

 I think a "force resign button" was poorly worded on my part. Dragec, you said you support adjudication in case of stalling. How would that work and in what scenerio would it apply specifically? I think we are on the same page here... trying to speed up games that are dragggging on needlessly and prolonging significally group/round play in tournys.

TheGrobe
TheGrobe
Dec 11, 2010
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#28

I know it's been said, but this basically already exists:

If you have a forced mate against a slow opponent, simply enter the conditional lines for it and have a little patience.  You won't have to touch the game again, so you can effectively wash your hands of it.

LogoCzar
NM LogoCzar
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Dec 11, 2010
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#29

poo poo

LogoCzar
NM LogoCzar
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Dec 11, 2010
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#30
logozar wrote:

poo poo

haha very funny

Conflagration_Planet
Conflagration_Planet
Dec 11, 2010
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#31
TheGrobe wrote:

I know it's been said, but this basically already exists:

If you have a forced mate against a slow opponent, simply enter the conditional lines for it and have a little patience.  You won't have to touch the game again, so you can effectively wash your hands of it.

What if you make a conditional move, and they do something unexpected? I'm not talking about forced moves, of course.

clms_chess
clms_chess
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Dec 11, 2010
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#32
TheGrobe wrote:

I know it's been said, but this basically already exists:

If you have a forced mate against a slow opponent, simply enter the conditional lines for it and have a little patience.  You won't have to touch the game again, so you can effectively wash your hands of it.

 Yea... your right. And I do that. I was just wondering if there is a way to speed it up. If you choose to play in a 14 day tourny... then... you "made your bed" and have to live with it. Im talking about games in large tournys (3-5 day/move variety) that reaaly drag on.   

Dragec
Dragec
Dec 11, 2010
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#33
clms_chess wrote:

 I think a "force resign button" was poorly worded on my part. Dragec, you said you support adjudication in case of stalling. How would that work and in what scenerio would it apply specifically? I think we are on the same page here... trying to speed up games that are dragggging on needlessly and prolonging significally group/round play in tournys.

Please see this thread, and the game, the stalling actually paid off:

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/community/vacation-adjudication-in-a-winning-position?page=1

http://www.chess.com/echess/game.html?id=15671130

Dragec
Dragec
Dec 11, 2010
0
#34

I would suggest tournaments with better rules, and clearly defined cases when adjudication is possible(game from the previous thread being one such example)

I would also suggest a better conditional moves, IMO gameknot beats chess.com (same as with puzzles as peeter also mentioned). I'm not sure if they're much better for premium members, but I would like to see some variations and branching, much like in analysis diagrams you can post in the threads:

TheGrobe
TheGrobe
Dec 11, 2010
0
#35
woodshover wrote:
TheGrobe wrote:

I know it's been said, but this basically already exists:

If you have a forced mate against a slow opponent, simply enter the conditional lines for it and have a little patience.  You won't have to touch the game again, so you can effectively wash your hands of it.

What if you make a conditional move, and they do something unexpected? I'm not talking about forced moves, of course.

Well, it only works if your mate is 100% forced, if they have the opportunity to do something unexpected then I think we're talking about a different situation -- one in which anything akin to a "force resign" button is entirely inappropriate.

TheGrobe
TheGrobe
Dec 11, 2010
0
#36
clms_chess wrote:
TheGrobe wrote:

I know it's been said, but this basically already exists:

If you have a forced mate against a slow opponent, simply enter the conditional lines for it and have a little patience.  You won't have to touch the game again, so you can effectively wash your hands of it.

 Yea... your right. And I do that. I was just wondering if there is a way to speed it up. If you choose to play in a 14 day tourny... then... you "made your bed" and have to live with it. Im talking about games in large tournys (3-5 day/move variety) that reaaly drag on.   

Patience.

Conditional moves does speed it up somewhat -- at least the part of the game that is under your control.

If you want a silver lining, think of it as an easy way to get your average time per move down.

Dragec
Dragec
Dec 11, 2010
0
#37

Yep, you could also create tournaments for persons with short average time per move only.

And if there could be a way to mark a members stalling the games, so they could be banned from the next tournament.

clms_chess
clms_chess
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Dec 11, 2010
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#38
Dragec wrote:

Yep, you could also create tournaments for persons with short average time per move only.

And if there could be a way to mark a members stalling the games, so they could be banned from the next tournament.

 These are some great suggestions.