Geller and Tal had positive records against Fischer. Why? Explain.

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Avatar of Laskersnephew

The answer with Tal is quite simple: In 1959, Tal was the strongest player in the world, on the way to defeating Botvinnik for the world championship, while Fischer was an incredibly talented young player, but with very limited experience at the top level. Tal won all 4 of their games in the Candidates Tournament. For the rest of his life, he never won another game against Fischer,  going 1.5-3.5 on classical games and 0-2 in Blitz.

Geller seemed to have a psychological edge against Fischer. He radiated an intense hatred towards Fischer that seemed to intimidate the younger Bobby. It's worth noting that Geller also enjoyed a lifetime plus score against Mikhail Botvinnik

Of course Tal and Geller were also great players, That helped!

Avatar of HolyCrusader5

Oh, but the rematch he had with Fischer was after his rematch with Botvinnik. 

Avatar of Pulpofeira

Yeah, I think Geller had a positive score against every WC he played except for Kasparov.

Avatar of Pulpofeira

Why couldn't Fischer have a negative score against a couple of world class players anyway, even if he was the best? Those things can happen.

Avatar of Pulpofeira

Lutikov had a positive score against him too, but apparently they only played blitz when Bobby visited the USSR in his teens.

Avatar of chetwisner

Hasn't anyone pointed out that Fischer's record with Tal was 4 wins, 4 losses and 5 draws? TAL DID NOT HAVE A POSITIVE SCORE AGAINST FISCHER.

Avatar of blueemu

Hey... Tal had an even score against me, too. I'm as good as Fischer! (in that respect).

Avatar of spartakbarnsley
blueemu wrote:

Hey... Tal had an even score against me, too. I'm as good as Fischer! (in that respect).

 

I seem to remember reading on here a while back that you drew with him in a simultaneous. Absolutely awesome stuff. I know a guy in St Petersburg, an old dude who beat Tal in a blitz game (though lost the 8 game series 6-1-1!!) and who also beat Korchnoi in a classical game! Sadly his wife has ALS, so he's very busy looking after her,  but I'm trying to organise a game with him sometime soon. Even if I only manage a draw, to say that I drew with someone who beat Tal and Korchnoi will be something I'll never, ever shut up about!

Avatar of HowsterZthatsme

Chet Eisner #132.    

Fischer’s tournament record against Tal was 2-4, with 5 draws.  This was as of 1994.  I doubt they played after Tal’s death in 1992, until at least 2008!

      They might well have been playing each other like crazy these last dozen years, but my contacts have remained mum about this.  Word HAS come down, though, that Botvinnik and Reshevsky are still butt-holes.

PS: Alekhine is still running from Capa!

Avatar of HowsterZthatsme

Styles, as some mentioned earlier in this thread, so often account for so much.

All players have had opponents who have given them trouble.

Tal’s record

vs  Korchnoi:        4+ 13-  28=

vs Polugaevsky:   2+ 8-   22=

vs Spassky:          6+ 9-   28=

vs Keres:               5+ 8-  18=

vs Stein:                0+ 3-   14=

vs Seirawan(!):     0+ 4-  1=

Now Geller:

vs Korchnoi:       6+ 11-   17=

vs Polugaevsky: 4+ 12-  20=

vs Spassky:        6+ 9-  22=

vs Keres:             7+ 8-  22=

Interestingly:

    Tal vs Geller:  6+ 6- 21=

SO!  These two great players, Tal and Geller,

had their own problem opponents, like Fischer and everyone else!  It’s foolish to think Fischer would had gotten destroyed by Tal, Geller, Karpov or anyone else!  He would most likely have solved dilemmas against any of them.  

 

  

 

Avatar of Tja_05

I find it interesting that Tal and Geller share 4 problem opponents.

Avatar of Tja_05

xeno-bob wrote:

first of all bobby was only 15 years old when he played TAL in 1958. Fischer just came to Russia in apr of 1958 an was only 15 years old. TAL beat him 4 strait and two draws. but when fischer turned 16 tal Never beat him again. bobby won 4 strait 2-0 in blitz versus Tal. Bobby was much better as he got older. bobby was Better than tal as i just proved.

That's not proof that Bobby was better, because you fail to take into account that Tal was past his prime by then.

Avatar of DarkKnightAttack
JustARandomPatzer wrote:

 

xeno-bob wrote:

 

first of all bobby was only 15 years old when he played TAL in 1958. Fischer just came to Russia in apr of 1958 an was only 15 years old. TAL beat him 4 strait and two draws. but when fischer turned 16 tal Never beat him again. bobby won 4 strait 2-0 in blitz versus Tal. Bobby was much better as he got older. bobby was Better than tal as i just proved.

 

That's not proof that Bobby was better, because you fail to take into account that Tal was past his prime by then.

 

Agree

Avatar of Account_Suspended

+2-2=0 to me

Avatar of HowsterZthatsme

JustARandomPatzer:  Re#137

That’s why I chose those in particular.  Each had other negative scores against other opponents; Tsl had more of them.  Of course, Tal played considerably more games against top players: 794 vs 636.

One notable difference was against Stein:

Tal:       0+  3-  13=

Geller:  6+  1-    9=.

But against Larsen: 

Tal:     12+  6-  18=

Geller:  4+  5-   9=

 

 

Avatar of An_asparagusic_acid
andrewjeselson2 wrote:

So i noticed on chessgames.com that fischer was negative against tal and geller. i just want to know why. was he bad? Not creative? or too good?

Fisher was a terrible chess player.

Avatar of Pulpofeira