Will Playing Tactically When my Style is Positional Improve my Chess Skill?

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kindaspongey
Uhohspaghettio1 wrote:

... Playing purely tactical in a headless chicken kind of way won't help your overall understanding and won't make you a better player. Keep playing the way you are, you'll still face tactical complications. If you feel like playing a sharper game then go ahead.

Tactical sharpness comes and goes but it's the true understanding of chess that stays.

"... if you feel you’re poor at tactics you can choose a quiet positional opening (trying to hide from your weakness and just play chess), or seek more dynamic openings that engender lots of tactics and sacrifices (this might lead to more losses but, over time, will improve your tactical skills and make you stronger)." - IM Jeremy Silman (January 28, 2016)
https://www.chess.com/article/view/opening-questions-and-a-dream-mate

DiogenesDue
IMBacon wrote:
JeffGreen333 wrote:
IMBacon wrote:
Strangemover wrote:
IMBacon wrote:

The second best drummer around.

Name your number 1...

Phil Collins.

Phil Collins was one of the best singers of all-time, but a better drummer than Neil Peart?   IDK about all that.  

Honestly...I do think Neal Pert is the best, but its been a running joke between myself and a friend.  Thats why i go to my favorite Phil Collins.  I also think Chester Thompson, and Gene Krupa are right up there too.

Clem Burke, John Bonham, Lars Ulrich.  A drummer's job is to keep the beat and make the rest of the band sound awesome without a lot of fanfare (Moby Dick excused).  

DiogenesDue
IMBacon wrote:
bong711 wrote:

I assume OP is now in Quora asking the same question

Quora would bring 99% of the posters here to tears.

Most of them could not post there (not with their chess.com personas), they'd have to actually reveal who they are.

The OP is a troll posting.  I get that the 15 pages are not really the OP's  "win" because it's mostly one on one arguments and discussions about music, but...don't feed the trolls.  If this thread weren't updating every 5 min regardless, I would not be bumping it by saying so.

Uhohspaghettio1
kindaspongey wrote:
Uhohspaghettio1 wrote:

... Playing purely tactical in a headless chicken kind of way won't help your overall understanding and won't make you a better player. Keep playing the way you are, you'll still face tactical complications. If you feel like playing a sharper game then go ahead.

Tactical sharpness comes and goes but it's the true understanding of chess that stays.

"... if you feel you’re poor at tactics you can choose a quiet positional opening (trying to hide from your weakness and just play chess), or seek more dynamic openings that engender lots of tactics and sacrifices (this might lead to more losses but, over time, will improve your tactical skills and make you stronger)." - IM Jeremy Silman (January 28, 2016)
https://www.chess.com/article/view/opening-questions-and-a-dream-mate

Silman is talking more about expanding your opening repertoire to include dynamic openings, as opposed to playing the London System or Colle. He isn't advising to take on wild tactics as OP is suggesting.  

  

kindaspongey
Chebyshevv wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Chebyshevv wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Chebyshevv wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Chebyshevv wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Chebyshevv wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Chebyshevv wrote:

... Well sure, everyone has preferences.

Preference isn't a style though. Style is ...

Do you have some reason to believe that you can decide how everyone should use the word, “style”?

"Building a repertoire ... The first step is to think about your personal style. Do you prefer open, tactical positions or closed, strategic positions? Does an attack on your king make you nervous, or are you happy so long as you have a counter-attack? Do you prefer main lines, or something slightly offbeat? ..." - GM John Nunn (1998)

... You can disagree, in which case we can agree to disagree. I don't really care because I'm confident in this assessment. ...

Is there any reason for people to be obliged to be in compliance with the confident assessment of Chebyshevv?

... I argue my opinions with experience and logic while ...

Do you want to attempt to identify any specific post number as providing a reason for people to be obliged to be in compliance with the confident assessment of Chebyshevv?

I never mentioned compliance at all. ...

Well, if indeed you have no reason for people to be obliged to be in compliance with the confident assessment of Chebyshevv, perhaps you will accept that people do not act in compliance with the confident assessment of Chebyshevv.

There's no such thing as compliance in normal conversation. ...

If someone agreed to use "style" as you feel that it should be used, then it seems to me that it would be reasonable to refer to that as compliance. Consequently, if you have told someone else how "style" is used, then it seems to me to be appropriate to wonder if you have a reason for people to be obliged to be in compliance with the confident assessment of Chebyshevv.

 

Chebyshevv wrote:  ... I argued [my point], and you seem to have difficulty accepting I have the right to do that.

 

Since you identify no specific sentence as giving you this impression, I am unable to say much about your misperception.

 

Chebyshevv wrote:  ... I might say:  "... in some sense it's unfair to beginners that so many in this topic have treated that phrasing as a grave sin. Even so, there is a legitimate distinction to be made between style and preference -- between actions borne from knowledge and actions from ignorance." ...

 

KingSideInvasion was considering opening choice. If it is okay for GM John Nunn (and others) to refer to "style" in connection with that subject, then I fail to see any reason for KingSideInvasion to be in compliance with your views on distinctions to be made.  You can make such distinctions if you like, but I do not see how it helps with the question concerning the choice of openings for KingSideInvasion.

Compliance is a poor choice of words because it implies there is no mutual agreement. ... I have ideas and justifications that you demean by using the word compliance, and that is one of the reasons why I say you seem to have a problem with me stating my opinion.

---

As for all the people whining about word choice not being useful for KingSideInvasion, I agree. You'll notice on the first page, post #8, I gave advice I thought was helpful without quibbling about word choice.

A day later though, after I feel like good advice has been given, I'm willing (here and other places) to go off topic and talk about other things, but certainly I agree with your point that these semantic tirades aren't helpful to anyone.

My understanding is that one can comply because of agreement. My use of "compliance" does not indicate a problem with your right to argue your point. However, if you start telling someone how "style" is used, I think it is appropriate to raise the question of whether or not you have a reason for someone to be obliged to use "style" as you believe that it should be used.

DiogenesDue
kindaspongey wrote:
Chebyshevv wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Chebyshevv wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Chebyshevv wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Chebyshevv wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Chebyshevv wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Chebyshevv wrote:

... Well sure, everyone has preferences.

Preference isn't a style though. Style is ...

Do you have some reason to believe that you can decide how everyone should use the word, “style”?

"Building a repertoire ... The first step is to think about your personal style. Do you prefer open, tactical positions or closed, strategic positions? Does an attack on your king make you nervous, or are you happy so long as you have a counter-attack? Do you prefer main lines, or something slightly offbeat? ..." - GM John Nunn (1998)

... You can disagree, in which case we can agree to disagree. I don't really care because I'm confident in this assessment. ...

Is there any reason for people to be obliged to be in compliance with the confident assessment of Chebyshevv?

... I argue my opinions with experience and logic while ...

Do you want to attempt to identify any specific post number as providing a reason for people to be obliged to be in compliance with the confident assessment of Chebyshevv?

I never mentioned compliance at all. ...

Well, if indeed you have no reason for people to be obliged to be in compliance with the confident assessment of Chebyshevv, perhaps you will accept that people do not act in compliance with the confident assessment of Chebyshevv.

There's no such thing as compliance in normal conversation. ...

If someone agreed to use "style" as you feel that it should be used, then it seems to me that it would be reasonable to refer to that as compliance. Consequently, if you have told someone else how "style" is used, then it seems to me to be appropriate to wonder if you have a reason for people to be obliged to be in compliance with the confident assessment of Chebyshevv.

 

Chebyshevv wrote:  ... I argued [my point], and you seem to have difficulty accepting I have the right to do that.

 

Since you identify no specific sentence as giving you this impression, I am unable to say much about your misperception. ...

Compliance is a poor choice of words because it implies there is no mutual agreement. ... I have ideas and justifications that you demean by using the word compliance, and that is one of the reasons why I say you seem to have a problem with me stating my opinion. ...

My understanding is that one can comply because of agreement. My use of "compliance" does not indicate a problem with your right to argue your point. However, if you start telling someone how "style" is used, I think it is appropriate to raise the question of whether or not you have a reason for someone to use "style" as you believe that it should be used.

Your posts are already long-ish due to your copious quoting...it would be nice if you (and others) could learn how to cull the excessive indented comments from your replies, especially when it's a half-page of nested comments and a 1-2 line reply from you.  I'm purposely leaving the nested comments in to help show how annoying it is to see these walls of nested comments posted serially.

llamonade2
btickler wrote:

Your posts are already long-ish due to your copious quoting...it would be nice if you (and others) could learn how to cull the excessive indented comments from your replies

At least I try.

IIRC the quote tower I removed he added back in with his next reply.

DiogenesDue
Chebyshevv wrote:
btickler wrote:

Your posts are already long-ish due to your copious quoting...it would be nice if you (and others) could learn how to cull the excessive indented comments from your replies

At least I try.

IIRC the quote tower I removed he added back in with his next reply.

Yep, I saw that...was not targeting anyone specific with "and others".

llamonade2

No problem, I think I do pretty well at not holding grudges. In any case I remember you from many years ago and you're a good guy in my book.

kindaspongey
Uhohspaghettio1 wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Uhohspaghettio1 wrote:

... Playing purely tactical in a headless chicken kind of way won't help your overall understanding and won't make you a better player. Keep playing the way you are, you'll still face tactical complications. If you feel like playing a sharper game then go ahead.

Tactical sharpness comes and goes but it's the true understanding of chess that stays.

"... if you feel you’re poor at tactics you can choose a quiet positional opening (trying to hide from your weakness and just play chess), or seek more dynamic openings that engender lots of tactics and sacrifices (this might lead to more losses but, over time, will improve your tactical skills and make you stronger)." - IM Jeremy Silman (January 28, 2016)
https://www.chess.com/article/view/opening-questions-and-a-dream-mate

Silman is talking more about expanding your opening repertoire to include dynamic openings, as opposed to playing the London System or Colle. He isn't advising to take on wild tactics as OP is suggesting.

In view of the language that KingSideInvasion actually used

{"... playing more tactically (tactical openings, more open positions) ... play open, tactical positions such as gambits and such, ... play more tactical games ..."},

I would not conclude that there was necessarily much of a difference between what KingSideInvasion had in mind and what IM Silman had in mind when he referred to

"more dynamic openings that engender lots of tactics and sacrifices".

kindaspongey
btickler wrote:

… Your posts are already long-ish due to your copious quoting...it would be nice if you (and others) could learn how to cull the excessive indented comments from your replies, especially when it's a half-page of nested comments and a 1-2 line reply from you.  I'm purposely leaving the nested comments in to help show how annoying it is to see these walls of nested comments posted serially.

I have some sympathy for your point of view, however, there can be other considerations. Chebyshevv was concerned about my reason-for-compliance question, and it therefore seemed desirable to preserve a handy record of some of what inspired the question. Also, it was claimed that I seemed to have difficulty accepting that Chebyshevv has the right to argue a point. Consideration of that claim also made it desirable to keep a fair portion of the record handy. Also, when several conversations are interwoven in the same thread, handy records can help to clarify what is being said in one of those conversations.

Uhohspaghettio1
kindaspongey wrote:
Uhohspaghettio1 wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Uhohspaghettio1 wrote:

... Playing purely tactical in a headless chicken kind of way won't help your overall understanding and won't make you a better player. Keep playing the way you are, you'll still face tactical complications. If you feel like playing a sharper game then go ahead.

Tactical sharpness comes and goes but it's the true understanding of chess that stays.

"... if you feel you’re poor at tactics you can choose a quiet positional opening (trying to hide from your weakness and just play chess), or seek more dynamic openings that engender lots of tactics and sacrifices (this might lead to more losses but, over time, will improve your tactical skills and make you stronger)." - IM Jeremy Silman (January 28, 2016)
https://www.chess.com/article/view/opening-questions-and-a-dream-mate

Silman is talking more about expanding your opening repertoire to include dynamic openings, as opposed to playing the London System or Colle. He isn't advising to take on wild tactics as OP is suggesting.

In view of the language that KingSideInvasion actually used

{"... playing more tactically (tactical openings, more open positions) ... play open, tactical positions such as gambits and such, ... play more tactical games ..."},

I would not conclude that there was necessarily much of a difference between what KingSideInvasion had in mind and what IM Silman had in mind when he referred to

"more dynamic openings that engender lots of tactics and sacrifices".

That's fine. I think you are selecting quotes from the OP and also I'm sure from Silman that support your contrarian argumentative stance trying to find faults my post while ignoring the rest of his post.   

kindaspongey
KingSideInvasion wrote:

Hi, chess.com ! I have been facing this dilemma:

I am around 1560 level on chess.com (Rapid is the only time control I play seriously in), and I would consider my style of play positional. So I was wondering, would playing more tactically (tactical openings, more open positions) improve my overall chess game, or would it be better to stick to what I feel comfortable? I've heard before that beginners (I don't know if 1560 would be considered beginner or intermediate) should play open, tactical positions such as gambits and such, but at the same time, I don't play nearly as good when I play purely tactically. So I was wondering, would it be best to play more tactical games and maybe go down in rating a bit but eventually go up again, or should I stick to what I am comfortable with? I would appreciate anybody's answer to this question though it would be nice if some higher rated players who have potentially gone through the same could answer.

 

Thanks!

https://www.chess.com/article/view/opening-questions-and-a-dream-mate

RoobieRoo

chessboard does not care about our style, it just cares about logic. If you want to improve your tactics play against a computer they will show you very quickly where you have gone tactically wrong, don't become depressed though, just try and last as long as you can.

IMKeto

JeffGreen333
najdorf96 wrote:

Indeed. Happy New Year's guys! As it is, spongey is most definitely the Ultimate anti-bot here on chess.com., in my opinion. Obviously, he's unique in that he rarely gives his own insight using his own words: but provides us with good service words, phrases, links of acknowledged prose. bIn relation to the topic at hand. Informative & helpful in a lot of circumstances. Kudos to him🤙🏼

You must be one of them.  lol

JeffGreen333
Chebyshevv wrote:

There's no such thing as compliance in normal conversation. People disagree and then argue their point. I argued mine, and you seem to have difficulty accepting I have the right to do that.

Meanwhile you continue to fail to argue your point. You quote others not as supporting evidence, but as your whole case.

For example a reasonable person would give this kind of reply:  "John Nunn talks about having style in his book ____ which is aimed at beginners. Therefore I think it's fair to say beginners have style, and at the very least it's unreasonable to attack beginners for claiming they have a style."

And then I might say:  "colloquially yes, beginners have style, and in some sense it's unfair to beginners that so many in this topic have treated that phrasing as a grave sin. Even so, there is a legitimate distinction to be made between style and preference -- between actions borne from knowledge and actions from ignorance."

This is an example of how a normal conversation might develop.

Boy, you're a regular one-man debate team.   lol   But you're absolutely right.   

kindaspongey
kindaspongey wrote (~2 hours ago):
Chebyshevv wrote:

… There's no such thing as compliance in normal conversation. ...

If someone agreed to use "style" as you feel that it should be used, then it seems to me that it would be reasonable to refer to that as compliance. Consequently, if you have told someone else how "style" is used, then it seems to me to be appropriate to wonder if you have a reason for people to be obliged to be in compliance with the confident assessment of Chebyshevv.

 

Chebyshevv wrote:  ... I argued [my point], and you seem to have difficulty accepting I have the right to do that.

 

Since you identify no specific sentence as giving you this impression, I am unable to say much about your misperception.

 

Chebyshevv wrote:  ... I might say:  "... in some sense it's unfair to beginners that so many in this topic have treated that phrasing as a grave sin. Even so, there is a legitimate distinction to be made between style and preference -- between actions borne from knowledge and actions from ignorance." ...

 

KingSideInvasion was considering opening choice. If it is okay for GM John Nunn (and others) to refer to "style" in connection with that subject, then I fail to see any reason for KingSideInvasion to be in compliance with your views on distinctions to be made.  You can make such distinctions if you like, but I do not see how it helps with the question concerning the choice of openings for KingSideInvasion.

 

JeffGreen333
Uhohspaghettio1 wrote:

"... if you feel you’re poor at tactics you can choose a quiet positional opening (trying to hide from your weakness and just play chess), or seek more dynamic openings that engender lots of tactics and sacrifices (this might lead to more losses but, over time, will improve your tactical skills and make you stronger)." - IM Jeremy Silman (January 28, 2016)
https://www.chess.com/article/view/opening-questions-and-a-dream-mate

Silman is talking more about expanding your opening repertoire to include dynamic openings, as opposed to playing the London System or Colle. He isn't advising to take on wild tactics as OP is suggesting.  

  

Magnus plays the London System, so it must be fine.   In fact, he just crushed Hikaru with it, in the Blitz World Championship Finals tie break, a few days ago.   Bad timing on that comment.  happy.png   I also play the London sometimes, but not the way Carlsen does.   Also, I agree with Jeremy Silman's comment and hid from my weaknesses for many years, with pretty good results.   I finally overcame most of them years later, after doing lots of study (not by playing a lot).

IMKeto