Giuoco piano, does black have the advantage here?

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Alltheusernamestaken

I was checking what happens when black castles instead of going d6 on this position

So I made the most natural moves for me, wining a pawn, but the computer says black has a good edge here:

The computer recomends d5 and Ncd2 blocking your own knight and bishop. I don't Ncd2 as the best move or black's edge, white has a good center, one more pawn and is ready to castle and develop all the pieces.

Maybe it's becouse black has the bishop pair and a more flexible position but I would go for this as white.

Alltheusernamestaken
mickynj wrote:

b4 may be the most "natural" move, but it is far from the best. My first instinct would be 1.Qb3, but I have no idea what theory says. In the final position, after Black plays 4...d5, what move do you like for White? My non-master view is that White's extended queen side is week and he's going to have a hard time keeping it together. And Black has those bishops.  I think Black is going to be able to open lines and get a lot of piece activity. Why don't you take white and play a few times against your chess engine. Obviously, the engine is much stronger than we are, but it will give you a better feel for what Black's compensation is like

I would just take d5 and start developing pieces. I don't think queenside is weak as you can just exchange the b pawn center if blacks wants and keep the strong center, also all the pieces are ready to start a king side attack

Alltheusernamestaken
mickynj wrote:

I won't argue with you, but I sincerely suggest you try taking the white pieces against Fritz or Stockfish or Komodo a few times. I think you will find it very instructive

BTW: I'm not suggesting that Black has a big advantage in that position, just more than enough compensation for the pawn

I can use the same argument, play as black against the computer and you will find it very instructive

Alltheusernamestaken

The engine gives me this continuation

So black manages to castle, get the pawn back and a much better position but this only happens if black does the best moves

Taskinen
Alltheusernamestaken wrote:

The engine gives me this continuation

So black manages to castle, get the pawn back and a much better position but this only happens if black does the best moves


From whites perspective the issue here is that finding the "best" moves isn't all that hard for black. Whites position after 7. b5 is already full of weaknesses, and the pawn structure is cracking. After 9. Nxc4 whites pawns are too far advanced, he has only one piece developed and hasn't castled. Black has no weaknesses, 2 pieces out and is already castled. That's 9 moves in with white pieces, where you have one pawn for bad position and you're behind in development. After that all you need to do as black is to start chiseling that central mass, get your pieces out and enjoy the initiative.

Alltheusernamestaken
Taskinen wrote:
Alltheusernamestaken wrote:

The engine gives me this continuation

So black manages to castle, get the pawn back and a much better position but this only happens if black does the best moves


From whites perspective the issue here is that finding the "best" moves isn't all that hard for black. Whites position after 7. b5 is already full of weaknesses, and the pawn structure is cracking. After 9. Nxc4 whites pawns are too far advanced, he has only one piece developed and hasn't castled. Black has no weaknesses, 2 pieces out and is already castled. That's 9 moves in with white pieces, where you have one pawn for bad position and you're behind in development. After that all you need to do as black is to start chiseling that central mass, get your pieces out and enjoy the initiative.

10.a6 and 11.b5 are not that easy to find