Ok folks, gotta go to work.
A wise man (my memory is fragile and failing) said,
Happiness is if your work is something that you love, and that you would love to do even in your leisure time.
And all for free!
Alas, I hasn't been so lucky. It's not chess
Magic the Gathering, Wizard Dragon Chess
Szymek, all of us who may feel the same are patzers MADE.
Not because we are born so, or have no talent.
The basic education in chess, math, etc. is broken, rot, rot, rotten, rotten to the core.
Blame the FIRST teacher. They are primarily responsible if we don't get wings -- in any domain
Hmm....... I'm sure you could change your mindset with determination
What most important part of mindset is it that you would change? And how? (determination is not enough).
And what is chess mindset, anyway? And when do we grow it?
In the critical early period? or it develops later as we are more and more experienced?
How can we change something if we may not be in line what it actually means?
Szymek, all of us who may feel the same are patzers MADE.
Not because we are born so, or have no talent.
The basic education in chess, math, etc. is broken, rot, rot, rotten, rotten to the core.
Blame the FIRST teacher. They are primarily responsible if we don't get wings -- in any domain
Hmm....... I'm sure you could change your mindset with determination
What most important part of mindset is it that you would change? And how? (determination is not enough).
And what is chess mindset, anyway? And when do we grow it?
In the critical early period? or it develops later as we are more and more experienced?
How can we change something if we may not be in line what it actually means?
Let me take on the questions one by one
Yes, it requires some thinking.
These may help you a little
What most important part of mindset would you change? And how?
The most important part of mindset I would change is the way I start thinking when it's my move. We usually have sub-conscious thought processes that filter out the moves for us without us even being aware of it. And the way we calculate is same - as soon as we look at a move we see 2 moves ahead. We should start being more conscious about this and start thinking CONSCIOUSLY until the system becomes part of our subconscious. One good way is the 'Scanning Technique' - I don't think it's mostly known anywhere outside India, even all Indians do not know what that means .
So, lemme give a brief introduction about 'scanning technique' - it's much more simple than it sounds. You start with the a-file, check all the squares a piece could go to and make a list of all the relevant moves. You continue till the h-file, and you then do the same with pawns. When you're done, you have a list of candidates. I'd suggest you do not include all junk moves, only the reasonable ones - you'd mostly end up with 3-5. Now, you go through each of the candidates carefully, calculate them, and choose the move you like best . But I'd only recommend this to 'experienced patzers'. For others, I only suggest looking - not for candidate moves, but for candidate ideas. That is how you start developing a 'deep understanding' - you need to keep figuring out ideas.
It took you only thirteen minutes to think about it and give an answer.
You previously said "one by one." Which part does your latest comment answer?
The first question, I've written it in bold
Oh, sorry
What most important part of mindset would you change? And how?
But these are two, actually three questions. (so you don't go one by one, you seem to be going by twos, or threes
)
The three questions are:
1) What is chess mindset?
2) What part should we first change for biggest dividends in terms of improvement?
3) and finally, once we picked one element of mindset for 'deliberate practice' (Dr Ericsson's term), what is the best method for it?
Holy mackerel! do we really have to go through all this?
Shouldn't we first get in line with the first? (now I gotta go to work, think about it, you don't rush as a 15-year old might)
Talk to you tomo! bye now
This is me when I was really immature, practicing roaring for the first time
Okay, let's start with what a chess mindset means - although please READ MY ANSWER first - I don't want it to go in waste
You said one by one, then you give a 13-min answer to what seem to be three real big and important questions, so I got confused and caught by surprise by your promptness of a 15-year young. Sorry, I'm old, thinking slow
(by the way there is a great book, Thinking, Fast and Slow, by Kahneman. Btw, we need to define, in chess terms, what his System 1 actually is)
What most important part of mindset would you change? And how?
The most important part of mindset I would change is the way I start thinking when it's my move. One good way is the 'Scanning Technique' - I don't think it's mostly known anywhere outside India, even all Indians do not know what that means .
You start with the a-file, check all the squares a piece could go to and make a list of all the relevant moves. You continue till the h-file, and you then do the same with pawns. When you're done, you have a list of candidates. I'd suggest you do not include all junk moves, only the reasonable ones - you'd mostly end up with 3-5. Now, you go through each of the candidates carefully, calculate them, and choose the move you like best . That is how you start developing a 'deep understanding' - you need to keep figuring out ideas.
(from @MiddlegamerUmesh #57)
Umesh, you're improving. Yesterday you answered a very complex question in 13 minutes, now you haven't answered with "chess mindset definition" yet. A good sign. Your patience is improving.
While you're still pondering, I'll take a look at what you previously said (#57).
.
True, "how we start 'thinking' when our move" is definitely part of mindset. You call it Scanning technique. Very good.
First thing you see that I put thinking between quotes. It's all about what we consider as thinking. Any mental process in the brain, or just conscious effort.
I understand Chess Mindset to be part of that fast, instinctive reaction. No deliberation. As opposed to conscious approach using logic, calculation etc. when the former (let's use Kahneman's term System 1) is unable to provide a quick solution for the problem at hand.
Now let's go back to your scanning technique. You say we should
"Check all the squares a piece, or a pawn could go to" from a- to h-file, while trimming "junk moves" in the process, and ending up with 3-5 moves.
Frankly, this reminds me of a machine's approach of scanning the board, not how a human would address it (say Alekhine, or Keres, whose scanning technique we can check in de Groot's seminal Thought and Choice in Chess). Yet, it is one possible approach, I agree.
Now, remember I mentioned my beginner's method at Square One (or Chess First Hour)? To which you were a little bit impatient, if I may say so, and responded with "I think teaching chess to beginners was the topic of another post? Let's not go off-topic"
Well, had you ever read my Chess First Hour (actually it is First 10 Minutes) it would have been quite clear that my approach doesn't start with the moves, quite unlike what you say in your Scanning Technique where you look for the squares chessman could go to.
To be continued...
You know what? You're referring to the same comment in both cases
??
Did you come up with an idea what we might consider as chess mindset?
Did you come up with an idea what we might consider as chess mindset?
Trying to put it into words
Yes, there are things that even words cannot describe, or describe clearly and succinctly. A concept, for instance...
The 'chess mindset' is the way our mind looks at the board, apart from psychological pressure and conscious thinking.
Yeah, I would think this is close. I don't think we may want that pressure in our definition, but pretty much you're saying briefly what we previously discussed
True, "how we start 'thinking' when our move" is definitely part of mindset. You call it Scanning technique. Very good.
First thing you see that I put thinking between quotes. It's all about what we consider as thinking. Any mental process in the brain, or just conscious effort.
I understand Chess Mindset to be part of that fast, instinctive reaction. No deliberation. As opposed to conscious approach using logic, calculation etc. when the former (let's use Kahneman's term System 1) is unable to provide a quick solution for the problem at hand.
So now, once we have a common idea what chess mindset may be, what it could be made of?
You explained your Scanning technique. That's one.
What else do you think?
So now, once we have a common idea what chess mindset may be, what it could be made of?
You explained your Scanning technique. That's one.
What else do you think?
Wait, Scanning Technique is not part of the chess mindset - no one ever develops the scanning technique in their mindset - it needs our conscious effort to do so, and it might take very long to make the scanning technique part of our mindset
Yes, in the beginning, assuming you have a (good) teacher to help you instill the right mindset, it is a conscious effort, you are right about that.
Now, your Scanning technique may require 'very long' as you say before it becomes second nature.
However, perhaps, my scanning technique is different and simpler than yours?
typically, its elements are adopted in a matter of only (few) days
So now, once we have a common idea what chess mindset may be, what it could be made of?
You explained your Scanning technique. That's one.
What else do you think?
Now Middlegamer, don't rush. Think a little about all elements we may consider being part of chess mindset. Every player develops her/his own (sub)mental algorithm over time, so your and my scanning technique will differ.
This is important as we said before that any effective improvement should address mindset, the frame of (System 1) mind. In other words, updating the chess O/S working deep down there...
By the way, I don't use the 'scanning technique' I mentioned - I first learn about it from the Indian super coach R.B. Ramesh - the coach of Praggnanandha, etc.
He may be a super coach, but, with all due respect,his way may not seem so superb if you check Alekhine, or Keres's way of grasping the essence of position to get an understanding of what move to choose, as in de Groot's think-aloud experiment from his Thought and Choice in Chess.
And let's call it a day at this point and continue on tomo. What do you think?
Umesh, makes sense so far?
Yes, it does - I'll think about it and come up with some ideas - maybe we could do a blog series over this together? I've decided to put a lot of effort into my blogs, and these might be good topics - although I wouldn't want to steal your ideas from you .
MiddlegamerUmesh wrote:
Can I make a blog series on this topic?
Well, maybe you wouldn't want to steal it, but somehow that is exactly what I feel you may want to do, ha, ha.
Look, we are having a great, productive discussion, something one can hardly find anywhere else.
We do it together while I am steering discussion in the direction my ten-year experience in dealing with the subject is suggesting (my gut feeling, or mindset, I developed over that time)
So what I suggest is that I prepare a blog content based on our discussion here, I send it over to you to check and make suggestions, and then we post at the same, first on my blog and then yours.
What do you think? How does that sound to you?
Both of us could make a blog expressing our own ideas and leave it to the readers to figure out what we do next
Frankly, it seems to me you've hardly had an original idea apart from supercoach Ramesh's Scanning technique, haven't you?
So you want to express His and My ideas in Your blog?
Am I seeing it right that way?
Szymek, all of us who may feel the same are patzers MADE.
Not because we are born so, or have no talent.
The basic education in chess, math, etc. is broken, rot, rot, rotten, rotten to the core.
Blame the FIRST teacher. They are primarily responsible if we don't get wings -- in any domain