How come GM's dislike it when they are asked how many moves they can see ahead?

Sort:
Avatar of DeathScepter

I'm not really sure why it matter how far a GM can see. I myself (patzer), have done endgame exercises where I've played 12 move cycles in my head. I think the real question people want answered is, 'How do I calculate further, and more accurately?'. That's the question that pops into my head as I compare myself to the titled players who I seek to join the ranks of. Like much of chess, it's going to come back to two words we so little like to hear, work and experience. How have I personally tried to better my own depth of analysis and accuracy? Well, I've started with the basics, with endgames. I'll set up the start position in front of me, then I'll just start writing down lines as I force myself to see them in my head. I'll go until the line is complete, unclear or I've made a mistake. Next I'll double check my written down moves over the board, to make sure all the moves were correct. Working on tactics books without a board will help develop your 'sight' at the board. The more chess we play, and the more tactics we study, the more 'chunks' we will have available to speed up our analysis. To me, it reminds me of watching a movie that you've seen already. The scenes will just sort of flash to you, without a real effort to process what you are seeing, because you've already done that. A GM has so many chunks, so many patterns, that blazing through trees of analysis is much easier for them, cause they've already been down that road. Fish like me are still reading the board letter by letter, whereas the GM is reading whole words and even half sentences at a time. So, the answer to how many moves is 33 1/3. The answer to better chess is work and more work.

Avatar of dannyhume

Yeah, seems like they don't even have to try to think until at least 5-7 moves or more into a calculation.

Like learning to read, you start off sounding the letters, but then you esaliy rcenogzie teh wrods trhuogh pttaern rcenogtoin ("chnuknig") eevn if tehy aer seplled incrrocetly.

Avatar of rigamagician

Yeah, pattern recognition plays a huge part in narrowing down the range of candidate moves you examine at any given juncture.  GMs often have a sense of danger that tips them off to tactical possibilities that arise in certain types of position, so rather than try to calculate every single possibility, they cycle through combinational motifs they've seen in other games, and see if they can be used in the given position.  I think it was De Groot or someone who first pointed out that more than the ability to calculate, it was this experience with a vast range of patterns that differentiated GMs from lower rated players.

Avatar of DeathScepter

I think there is a lot of truth in the idea that Master and above work less at the board than the amateur.  The reason being that they've done the work in practice and study, so that when they get to the game situation, calculation has become perfected to the point of being almost automatic. They have more time to consider the stategic aspects of the position. The Masters and GM's are human just like us. They cannot calculate dozens of move trees dozens of branches in. The professional level players have experience enough to pick out a few candidate moves, and calculate them out for a few moves until the set an anchor position which is favorable/playable for them. There are geniuses amongst the ranks of course, with superhuman calculative abilities, but your average GM is just going to be a normal person who just worked really really hard to master their craft.

Avatar of rigamagician

From a recent interview:

Time Magazine: How many moves ahead can you calculate on the chess board?

Magnus Carlsen: Sometimes 15 to 20 moves ahead. But the trick is evaluating the position at the end of those calculations.

Avatar of Chess_Enigma
rigamagician wrote:

From a recent interview:

Time Magazine: How many moves ahead can you calculate on the chess board?

Magnus Carlsen: Sometimes 15 to 20 moves ahead. But the trick is evaluating the position at the end of those calculations.


They see completly different positions at the end of that. I remember in analysis after a simul with Shirov in a king-pawn endgame he only had a few seconds to calculate he was rhyming of variations 15-20 moves deep with out putting much effort in.