How do I defend the arguement that chess is a sport?

Sort:
err0r909

Tell them to give my previous back, where I really belong. This start from scratch 3 times in a row for expressing my opinion is unfair

Ziryab
lfPatriotGames wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

Psychobabble is a form of communication, but a poor one. It usually says more about the one spouting it.

The notion that anyone who considers chess a sport must be hoping to gain something tangible from the recognition is only slightly less absurd than the suggestion that anyone opposed to the assertion lacks imagination.

But you have to admit sports are a lot more popular and profitable than board games. So those are two prime suspects. It's not likely some people feel chess is a sport just for the fun of it. People are motivated by things that they feel benefit them. It seems MUCH more likely that the "chess is a sport" people hope to gain something tangible rather than doing it for non tangible reasons.

It seems much more likely that your limited understanding of human motivation is flawed.

People who seek financial gain from arguments on social media are fools.

err0r909
Ziryab wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

I know that Ziryab is a chess coach for young people and that therefore he stands to gain financially by quite a lot, the more chess is recognised as a sport. That is so obvious that it's no wonder he tries to protect himself. It's only a discussion, however. This is a Chess forum and people should be able to put forward their honest opinion, without being attacked because of it. This is not Russia or North Korea.

I am a chess coach for children because I am not motivated by hope of financial gain. There are far easier ways to make money.

Your (and @AtPatriotGames) share an extremely limited understanding of human motivation. I’m willing to accept your confession that financial gain (or loss) is the sum of the motivation that has guided your life’s choices. Your projection of this world onto to others is pure nonsense.

Of course, some people hold the view that chess is a sport because it helps advance some goals, whether financial or otherwise.

As a chess coach, I may find some benefits if my students perform well. Those benefits are mostly the satisfaction of seeing those whom I care about do well. Promoting chess as a sport is not the most efficient or effective way to develop the talent of young players. Like the hope of illusory financial gain, this is a poor motivation for positions that I have taken in these discussions.

I just play chess for fun and never accept any cash or have any financial goal.

err0r909

with this said, your argument goes to sport is linked with cash? Above Amateur class yes may be. But the goal does not determine any answer in this topic.

I appreciate your efforts to coach btw.

err0r909

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3wKzyIN1yk/

err0r909
Optimissed wrote:

I just did one of my stunts where I lost a lot of rating points in a few games. I made a real mess of this one, playing really badly and dropping two pawns, not really watching what I was doing. I decided to try to focus and win it from two pawns down on the theory that I was probably by far the better player. 5 minute game. Making this the last game whatever the result.

gg

err0r909

We say over here in my language, the goal holy the means.

lfPatriotGames
Optimissed wrote:

I know that Ziryab is a chess coach for young people and that therefore he stands to gain financially by quite a lot, the more chess is recognised as a sport. That is so obvious that it's no wonder he tries to protect himself. It's only a discussion, however. This is a Chess forum and people should be able to put forward their honest opinion, without being attacked because of it. This is not Russia or North Korea.

I don't know why I didn't put those two together. I knew he has mentioned in the past he's a chess coach, so obviously there is a strong bias there if not for financial gain, at least heightened recognition.

lfPatriotGames
Pianojames wrote:

If it's officially recognised by the olympic committe as a sport then it's a sport. You don't need to defend your argument as it's already set in stone.

What makes you believe the Olympic committee defines what sports are? What about poetry and architecture? Are they sports?

err0r909
lfPatriotGames wrote:
Pianojames wrote:

If it's officially recognised by the olympic committe as a sport then it's a sport. You don't need to defend your argument as it's already set in stone.

What makes you believe the Olympic committee defines what sports are? What about poetry and architecture? Are they sports?

The IOC's Executive Board proposes which sports will be included, and the rest of the IOC members then vote on it. The IOC evaluates sports based on 35 criteria across 5 factors, including the sport's value to the Olympic legacy, popularity, and cost of broadcasting

err0r909

https://www.npr.org/sections/tokyo-olympics-live-updates/2021/07/28/1021713829/how-the-olympics-decide-what-sports-to-include/

lfPatriotGames
Ziryab wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

Psychobabble is a form of communication, but a poor one. It usually says more about the one spouting it.

The notion that anyone who considers chess a sport must be hoping to gain something tangible from the recognition is only slightly less absurd than the suggestion that anyone opposed to the assertion lacks imagination.

But you have to admit sports are a lot more popular and profitable than board games. So those are two prime suspects. It's not likely some people feel chess is a sport just for the fun of it. People are motivated by things that they feel benefit them. It seems MUCH more likely that the "chess is a sport" people hope to gain something tangible rather than doing it for non tangible reasons.

It seems much more likely that your limited understanding of human motivation is flawed.

People who seek financial gain from arguments on social media are fools.

Maybe. But probably not. Pick any moment in time. Today, yesterday, a hundred years ago, three thousand years ago. It's always the same. Human nature does not change. What motivates people really doesn't change much. It's pretty easy to guess what those things are.

And I don't expect them to change any time soon.

err0r909

I rest my case.

lfPatriotGames
err0r909 wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:
Pianojames wrote:

If it's officially recognised by the olympic committe as a sport then it's a sport. You don't need to defend your argument as it's already set in stone.

What makes you believe the Olympic committee defines what sports are? What about poetry and architecture? Are they sports?

The IOC's Executive Board proposes which sports will be included, and the rest of the IOC members then vote on it. The IOC evaluates sports based on 35 criteria across 5 factors, including the sport's value to the Olympic legacy, popularity, and cost of broadcasting

And chess is not an Olympic game. It's not included. My question might have been phrased poorly. What makes him believe the IOC is any authority on sports? If they have a bias or financial gain wouldn't we automatically disqualify their opinion? When defining things wouldn't it make more sense to go with a definition that's not tainted or biased? Poetry and architecture were at one time Olympic events. Does that mean they are (were) sports?

As someone else said, when a bank robber says the money in the bank belongs to them, do you believe them? Or is their opinion tainted and biased?

That's why the dictionary is one of the best sources for definitions. It's generally not biased. Definitions can change of course, but people who compile dictionaries don't do that. Society does that. And right now society says chess doesn't fit the criteria for sports.

err0r909
lfPatriotGames wrote:
err0r909 wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:
Pianojames wrote:

If it's officially recognised by the olympic committe as a sport then it's a sport. You don't need to defend your argument as it's already set in stone.

What makes you believe the Olympic committee defines what sports are? What about poetry and architecture? Are they sports?

The IOC's Executive Board proposes which sports will be included, and the rest of the IOC members then vote on it. The IOC evaluates sports based on 35 criteria across 5 factors, including the sport's value to the Olympic legacy, popularity, and cost of broadcasting

And chess is not an Olympic game. It's not included. My question might have been phrased poorly. What makes him believe the IOC is any authority on sports? If they have a bias or financial gain wouldn't we automatically disqualify their opinion? When defining things wouldn't it make more sense to go with a definition that's not tainted or biased? Poetry and architecture were at one time Olympic events. Does that mean they are (were) sports?

As someone else said, when a bank robber says the money in the bank belongs to them, do you believe them? Or is their opinion tainted and biased?

That's why the dictionary is one of the best sources for definitions. It's generally not biased. Definitions can change of course, but people who compile dictionaries don't do that. Society does that. And right now society says chess doesn't fit the criteria for sports.

I don't really want to argue, I know about IOC and their scandals even more. Also that you phrased it because one came up with that. I said it multiple times, this thread that was a topic once won't come in google database because he misspelled the word argument. I think it is best to close this as it seem a rabbit hole to be. Sincerely yours.

Ziryab
Optimissed wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

I know that Ziryab is a chess coach for young people and that therefore he stands to gain financially by quite a lot, the more chess is recognised as a sport. That is so obvious that it's no wonder he tries to protect himself. It's only a discussion, however. This is a Chess forum and people should be able to put forward their honest opinion, without being attacked because of it. This is not Russia or North Korea.

I don't know why I didn't put those two together. I knew he has mentioned in the past he's a chess coach, so obviously there is a strong bias there if not for financial gain, at least heightened recognition.

I think that he's denied the incentive of financial gain about four times and it isn't in my nature to disbelieve people. Even so, incentive can be unconscious and generalised rather than being specifically for money. I don't think there would be an incentive to deny it, if he was the innocent party. I just can't understand why someone would make personal attacks as a first line of defence. If he doesn't like me, that's his prerogative; but personal attacks are still something that are going to be reacted to. There's too much attempted bullying around here.

This is rich. You are trying to psychoanalyze me while also accusing me of personal attacks.

How about this. Truth motivates me in all I do. History. I seek facts. Medicine. I seek the best science. Chess. I seek its essence. Sport. I embrace the concept in all its richness and variety.

Bloviating nonsense. Well, you know how I respond to that because we’ve gone a few rounds in the past.

Lucas1009991

If i had a Country then its government wouldn’t recognize chess as a sport

Jared
Lucas1009991 wrote:

If i had a Country then its government wouldn’t recognize chess as a sport

Crazy how you put Chess, a simple board game/sport, on a national level where it's the countries decision.

err0r909
Lucas1009991 wrote:

If i had a Country then its government wouldn’t recognize chess as a sport

104.18.141.67(104.16.0.0/13)
AS 13335( CLOUDFLARENET )

Gorilla-Guy
BaseballDiamondCLE2 wrote:

chess is no sport because there is no athletic movements at all

Well then using that logic motorsports aren't sports because all you do is push pedals that make the car go faster/slower and turn a wheel to make it turn which take absolutely no athletic movements. And also Soccer isn't a sport because all you're doing is chasing after a ball trying to get it in a net.