I find 'win quick' gambits disgusting

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NikkiLikeChikki
Ummm.... first of all, wayward queen and scholar’s mate are not gambits.

Secondly, I love it when some doofus plays wayward queen because.... I watched a video called “how to punish wayward queen” and now more often than not I go on a queen hunt, trap their queen, and they resign.

Very satisfying.
Verbeena
Richard_Hunter wrote:

I'm sick of all these  'how to crush lower rated players with XXX gambit' type videos. Is this all people care about, getting a quick win by reciting a few moves by rote? At best, you'll improve your rating for a short while but then get kicked back down when you have to actually play real chess. I don't think we should be encouraging this sort of thing. I really want to shout abuse at someone when they play some stupid gambit. 

There is a simple solution - don't watch these videos and don't play gambits. Nobody is forcing you to do those things. And accept being outplayed by gambit players from time to time.

NikkiLikeChikki
In high level computer championships, when Leela and Stockfish play, the KGA is pretty much always drawn, but it’s usually white who is struggling. So evidence from the two strongest active chess engines on the planet indicate that it’s not refuted. Also, Leela has won many KGAs against second tier engines as white.

So there is no refutation, it just provides no advantage for white with best play from black, but it’s not losing.
Jkcv
ChessRook5T1 wrote:

The smith-morra is a good line for white because of its dynamics and active pieces and most times black will be undeveloped and often losing the d-pawn on d6 (because in the smith morra you’ll have to play e6 to get the f8 bishop out .. if you play g6 white will run you over as most of my experiences have told me )

all gambits are worth looking because they can help you better understand the dynamics and knowing not to be afraid to sacrifice a pawn or two to get something out of it.. which is VERY useful to know

But black may consolidate his extra pawn and in the endgame, black may win because of his extra pawn

 

fgsjd

I was a slow boring player when I started out until about 1400-1500 when I began studying Tals games. I loved the nature of his games and started trying to emulate his playing style in my games. At first my rating took a little dip but soon I got back where I was and was having 3x the fun playing. It works very well.

Richard_Hunter
kaukasar wrote:
Richard_Hunter wrote:

I'm sick of all these  'how to crush lower rated players with XXX gambit' type videos. Is this all people care about, getting a quick win by reciting a few moves by rote? At best, you'll improve your rating for a short while but then get kicked back down when you have to actually play real chess. I don't think we should be encouraging this sort of thing. I really want to shout abuse at someone when they play some stupid gambit. 

There is a simple solution - don't watch these videos and don't play gambits. Nobody is forcing you to do those things. And accept being outplayed by gambit players from time to time.

Do you people just copy and paste this from some template? It's same reply every time. 

Legendary_Basilisk
batgirl wrote:

I'm a gambiteer. It has nothing to do with tricks or even just winning.  There are traps in most openings anyway. What appeals to me about gambits is the classical tension between time and material.  In gambits, you give up material, maybe a little, maybe a lot, for the sake of rapid development.   I think computers have shown that material usually becomes advantageous over time with near perfect play. Fortunately, I play imperfect people.  Faster development gives you more options for a while. If you can make better use of those options before the advantage dissipates than your opponent can with his added material, which doesn't dissipate, you'll probably win, if not you'll probably lose.   Gambits aren't for everyone, but they certainly add spice to the game... and to me, it's all about the journey not the destination.  

The only good attacking gambit is the poison pawn variation of the najdorf. Most players that I encounter can easily neutralize unsound gambits.

batgirl

What a coincidence! Most gambiteers I know don't play unsound gambits. 

landloch

"The Modern School is essentially safety play. The range of Openings is restricted to those in which the chances of surprises are fewest, the Ruy Lopez, the Queen's Gambit Declined, &c, and Gambits and the Open Game are eschewed ... The Modern School is dull and unenterprising in comparison with the school which it has displaced." -H. J. R. Murray

De gustibus non est disputandum.

batgirl

Well, the development of tournaments in the last quarter of the 19th century assured just that.  I'm not sure I agree with Murray (who lived mainly in the last quarter of the 19th century through the first quarter of the 20th century) that the "Modern School" was unenterprising.  It was just as tactical (and by extension positional by necessity) as the more Romantic openings, but in a more subtle, less risky way.  Just as Romantic players needed good position for their tactical fireworks (and as more players better understood position, a la Morphy, the stronger they became), the "Modern" players were attuned to the tactics that held their positions together.   Finally, organizers recognized the need for thematic tournaments to add variety.  

fishface2
Legendary_Basilisk wrote:
batgirl wrote:

I'm a gambiteer. It has nothing to do with tricks or even just winning.  There are traps in most openings anyway. What appeals to me about gambits is the classical tension between time and material.  In gambits, you give up material, maybe a little, maybe a lot, for the sake of rapid development.   I think computers have shown that material usually becomes advantageous over time with near perfect play. Fortunately, I play imperfect people.  Faster development gives you more options for a while. If you can make better use of those options before the advantage dissipates than your opponent can with his added material, which doesn't dissipate, you'll probably win, if not you'll probably lose.   Gambits aren't for everyone, but they certainly add spice to the game... and to me, it's all about the journey not the destination.  

The only good attacking gambit is the poison pawn variation of the najdorf. Most players that I encounter can easily neutralize unsound gambits.

What do you mean by "good"? In my database of OTB games where both players are 2400+, updated last week, White scores 53.8% if Black accepts the Poisoned Pawn. That's pretty average. Many fascinating games certainly, but 1 e4 as a whole scores 54.8%. Playing the Poisoned Pawn as White arguably brings down White's score.

luxun111
你好
NikkiLikeChikki
Honestly, so much judgement. Just stop. If you don’t want me to play a gambit, just stop me. Better yet, bite me. Let me have my fun. I’m never going to be anything but a mediocre chess player, and I’ll be damned if I’m going to spend it shuffling pieces around a closed position.

You can take your “I’m better than you because I play real chess,” roll it into a thin elongated shape, and....
llama
kingandqueen2017 wrote:

I really don't get the name of this forum. Gambits are interesting. Some are bad and have been refuted, like the King's gambit, while others are good. Gambits= interesting.

The king's gambit was never refuted. That was an April fool's joke.

Apparently you're an FM purely because you started young, not because you have any aptitude for, or knowledge of, chess. Too bad.

xiaotonghuang9
Richard_Hunter wrote:
kaukasar wrote:
Richard_Hunter wrote:

I'm sick of all these  'how to crush lower rated players with XXX gambit' type videos. Is this all people care about, getting a quick win by reciting a few moves by rote? At best, you'll improve your rating for a short while but then get kicked back down when you have to actually play real chess. I don't think we should be encouraging this sort of thing. I really want to shout abuse at someone when they play some stupid gambit. 

There is a simple solution - don't watch these videos and don't play gambits. Nobody is forcing you to do those things. And accept being outplayed by gambit players from time to time.

Do you people just copy and paste this from some template? It's same reply every time. 

No.

You can quote someones comment. 

landloch
batgirl wrote:

Well, the development of tournaments in the last quarter of the 19th century assured just that.  I'm not sure I agree with Murray (who lived mainly in the last quarter of the 19th century through the first quarter of the 20th century) that the "Modern School" was unenterprising.  It was just as tactical (and by extension positional by necessity) as the more Romantic openings, but in a more subtle, less risky way.  Just as Romantic players needed good position for their tactical fireworks (and as more players better understood position, a la Morphy, the stronger they became), the "Modern" players were attuned to the tactics that held their positions together.   Finally, organizers recognized the need for thematic tournaments to add variety.  

 

Oh, I don't agree with Murray as well; he clearly didn't understand what the players of the "Modern School" were aiming at. I was just pointing out to the OP (perhaps far too subtlety) that a preference or aversion to gambits is a matter of taste, not a matter of how profound one's chess understanding is.

Maybe ... maybe ... gambits are sub-optimal play at the highest levels. But who here is playing at that kind of level that they need to worry about it?

Richard_Hunter

It seems like 4 years ago, when I started learning Chess, all the YouTube experts like Jonathan Schrantz and Eric Rosen would be warning learners against just learning lots of trick moves and instead advocate for understanding concepts and endgame theory. Now they all just seem to be competing for clicks by promoting the latest 'Win Quick' Gambit.

Also unpleasant is this trend for highly ranked players to just play much lower ranked players and thrash them.

Is this is what being 'cool' means in modern Chess, I prefer to be a fuddy-duddy.

Legendary_Basilisk
fishface2 wrote:
Legendary_Basilisk wrote:
batgirl wrote:

I'm a gambiteer. It has nothing to do with tricks or even just winning.  There are traps in most openings anyway. What appeals to me about gambits is the classical tension between time and material.  In gambits, you give up material, maybe a little, maybe a lot, for the sake of rapid development.   I think computers have shown that material usually becomes advantageous over time with near perfect play. Fortunately, I play imperfect people.  Faster development gives you more options for a while. If you can make better use of those options before the advantage dissipates than your opponent can with his added material, which doesn't dissipate, you'll probably win, if not you'll probably lose.   Gambits aren't for everyone, but they certainly add spice to the game... and to me, it's all about the journey not the destination.  

The only good attacking gambit is the poison pawn variation of the najdorf. Most players that I encounter can easily neutralize unsound gambits.

What do you mean by "good"? In my database of OTB games where both players are 2400+, updated last week, White scores 53.8% if Black accepts the Poisoned Pawn. That's pretty average. Many fascinating games certainly, but 1 e4 as a whole scores 54.8%. Playing the Poisoned Pawn as White arguably brings down White's score.

Chess is a draw, any gambit that leads to a draw is a good gambit. 

landloch
Richard_Hunter wrote:

It seems like 4 years ago, when I started learning Chess, all the YouTube experts like Jonathan Schrantz and Eric Rosen would be warning learners against just learning lots of trick moves and instead advocate for understanding concepts and endgame theory. Now they all just seem to be competing for clicks by promoting the latest 'Win Quick' Gambit.

Also unpleasant is this trend for highly ranked players to just play much lower ranked players and thrash them.

Is this is what being 'cool' means in modern Chess, I prefer to be a fuddy-duddy.

 

I do agree with this. 

Although marketing based on trick moves is nothing new:

https://www.amazon.com/Chess-Traps-Pitfalls-Swindles-Fireside/dp/0671210416/ref=pd_sbs_14_2/142-2699390-0771146?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0671210416&pd_rd_r=bbf08047-ebec-45ea-a8c7-70fad44a7c81&pd_rd_w=g61Ef&pd_rd_wg=dycyd&pf_rd_p=b65ee94e-1282-43fc-a8b1-8bf931f6dfab&pf_rd_r=TCTT32RFNY7Y6TQ8FY2G&psc=1&refRID=TCTT32RFNY7Y6TQ8FY2G

https://www.amazon.com/Chess-Openings-Traps-Fireside-Library/dp/0671656902/ref=pd_sbs_14_3/142-2699390-0771146?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0671656902&pd_rd_r=bbf08047-ebec-45ea-a8c7-70fad44a7c81&pd_rd_w=g61Ef&pd_rd_wg=dycyd&pf_rd_p=b65ee94e-1282-43fc-a8b1-8bf931f6dfab&pf_rd_r=TCTT32RFNY7Y6TQ8FY2G&psc=1&refRID=TCTT32RFNY7Y6TQ8FY2G

https://www.amazon.com/Winning-Chess-Traps-Ways-Opening/dp/B0007DMS6O/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=winning+chess+traps&qid=1601351106&sr=8-5

 

 

NikkiLikeChikki
Back in my day we didn’t play gambits! We played real chess with tons of theory and every game ended in a draw! Nobody would sacrifice a piece for something so disgusting as rapid development and initiative!

And we definitely didn’t play chess while sitting on the toilet!
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