interesting but is it at all possible to beat these things and i think it should be possible to draw with them especially if you are really good
I have the Solution to stop cheating in Live Chess!
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Except isn't it possible to defeat an engine? I say they should be put on a "possible suspects" list and have their games examined with the present cheating detection system.
RyanMK wrote:
I say they should be put on a "possible suspects" list and have their games examined with the present cheating detection system.
That would be a little fairer
Mar 22, 2009
0
#5
No.
For instance if you are rated 1500 and all of a sudden beat Fritz or Rybka in a 15 min game you are cheating. If Kramnik, Short, or Adams, can beat them how likely is it a 1500 or even a 2500 could?
That is why you make the "Chess.com cheat squad" have ratings which will intice a cheater to play.
It is a fantastic idea.
There is a slight problem. Firstly if I play a cheat squad member and they play perfectly, I will report them. If they are removed they will need a new account, if they are not I will know they are staff. Secondly if the cheat squad members have to keep changing accounts to avoid being recognised then the accounts will start to pick up signs. If a member appears to be completely familiar with Live chess but still has no member points or record chances are they are Killers and all you have to do to avoid them is turn off the engine. Finally if the squad plays a player who is a strong as an engine but has a lower rating as they jus joined then a lot of innocent GMs will be kicked off. Interesting but impractical!
Mar 22, 2009
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#7
rich34788 wrote:
RyanMK wrote:
I say they should be put on a "possible suspects" list and have their games examined with the present cheating detection system.
That would be a little fairer
Fairer how? If you beat an engine like Fritz or Rybka you cheated...Period. If you draw one of them you cheated....period. Since it is a human using a computer program they would also have the benefit not to ever give a draw and play on.
Mar 22, 2009
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#8
OMGdidIrealyjustsact wrote:
There is a slight problem. Firstly if I play a cheat squad member and they play perfectly, I will report them. If they are removed they will need a new account, if they are not I will know they are staff. Secondly if the cheat squad members have to keep changing accounts to avoid being recognised then the accounts will start to pick up signs. If a member appears to be completely familiar with Live chess but still has no member points or record chances are they are Killers and all you have to do to avoid them is turn off the engine. Finally if the squad plays a player who is a strong as an engine but has a lower rating as they jus joined then a lot of innocent GMs will be kicked off. Interesting but impractical!
Firstly chess squad members will be exempt from being deleted and their names can constantly be changed and they can be giving a background of games played as if they have been around a long time. Easy as taking a database of a bunch of different members and changing the names of the players.
A titled GM will be exempt from being removed from the site...and if they beat the engine in regular time controls it is very likely they cheated too!
How many engines do you expect to draw or defeat Rybka??? If anything they'll lose in a close match, and wouldn't be reported?
Mar 22, 2009
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#10
novagold wrote:
And what happens to those people who are played by these secret moderators and lose to them and thereofre lose rating points?
The loss of rating points will be negligable as the "Cheat Squad" will have a diversity of ratings ( 1300, 1700, 1458 ect). So it would be just like winning or losing to anyone else. Then at the end of every night when the "cheat squad" goes through identity scrubbing, those points will be given back perhaps?
Put it like this. There are already people cheating online and stealing your points. This would just great way to limit the number of the people stealing points and going under the radar.
Mar 22, 2009
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#11
RyanMK wrote:
How many engines do you expect to draw or defeat Rybka??? If anything they'll lose in a close match, and wouldn't be reported?
No need to use Rybka as the only engine. There are plenty of others to use. And there is not such thing as a non-GM in a close match with Rybka. I see a lot of peole seem unnerved by the idea....which means it is really solid!
And how much work are you trying to give the Chess.com staff? They have to play live chess, use engines, change their names every day, create a past history, keep their rating under 2100, and give players points they didn't deserve to lose. They may be able to use that time to improve live chess.
(P.S. I actually like your idea, I'm just being a devil's advocate)
Mar 22, 2009
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#13
pod1000 wrote
Interesting idea. Could this concept of "Proof by unexpected results" be taken further:
Let us suppose someone is banned from live chess in 3 minute chess, and they had a rating of over say 2000 and there was overwhelming evidence of them cheating. What about those players who drew with this player, or even beat them occasionally?! Perhaps they should be investigated as they had unexpectedly good results against the cheat ?!
The three minute chess without increment is a bit hit and miss at the moment for meeting engine users, when they are above 1800 in rating. That is why I prefer to play bullet chess, where there should be less practical risk of anyone having time to cheat.
Same reason I play bullet chess. However, I think looking back to people who have beaten a person found to be cheating also assumes they cheat everytime. Which may or may-not be the case...so I don't like the idea for that reason.
For me I want a real threat for cheaters who play in live chess to be taken out! Right then. You'll never know if you are playing a chess.com squad member or a regular joe. The randomness will yeild a lot better results than the current system.
Mar 22, 2009
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#14
The problem is -- when they play someone, and the person didn't cheat, you've just wasted that person's time exactly the same as if it was someone who did cheat.
This makes that idea totally unacceptable. Additionally, it would seem like this would require a lot of work/staff, and I'm just not sure the problem warrants that sort of approach. It seems a more passive approach where you monitor games after the fact, to try to identify the telltale signs of cheating might be better.
Mar 22, 2009
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#15
RyanMK wrote:
And how much work are you trying to give the Chess.com staff? They have to play live chess, use engines, change their names every day, create a past history, keep their rating under 2100, and give players points they didn't deserve to lose. They may be able to use that time to improve live chess.
(P.S. I actually like your idea, I'm just being a devil's advocate)
Most of the work can be done through programming. They wouldn't be staff, they would be like the moderators.
For instance: My real account is immortalgamer. If I was selected as a chess.com cheater kill squad" member I would have a different identity to log in with (say jonhenry1977). The parameters of rating and such will be programed to never go above 1700 (for instance...), also my username and such can be changed through a random name generator. My login will always be associated with the same email address, but my name could change from (jonhenry1977 to herald69).
What do you mean?
Mar 22, 2009
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#17
taijifan wrote:
The problem is -- when they play someone, and the person didn't cheat, you've just wasted that person's time exactly the same as if it was someone who did cheat.
This makes that idea totally unacceptable. Additionally, it would seem like this would require a lot of work/staff, and I'm just not sure the problem warrants that sort of approach. It seems a more passive approach where you monitor games after the fact, to try to identify the telltale signs of cheating might be better.
For me I would much rather know that the cheat squad is out there taking cheaters out everyday rather than the passive approach. If I play a cheat squad member, I'm sure it is not beyond the programing abilities to make every rated game against a cheat squad member be seen as unrrated by the rating statistic counter.
so there i am minding my own business, playing at my level. untill all of a sudden my seek is accepted by one of the mods (say he has a rating of 1600).
then ofcourse i play him (i never decline a game because of a higher rated person).
when playing im beated down on the ground and forced to kiss his feet, thats how good he will play with an engine. there is no way i will win and he will beat me mercylessly.
thats got to do wonders for my confidence >.<. ofcourse i am a low rated player and there is no real shame for me to lose to a 1600 rated person. but someone rated much higher will get more of a "mental blast" from that game and it might destroy his/her whole day.
i'm an innocent played being harrased my an admin and getting my ass kicked.
thats not something im looking for when playing a game!
Mar 22, 2009
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#19
Stopping the bigger problem helps more people than it hurts. If it ruins your entire day that is really say (for one), but totally worth it for the the chess.com community.
Hard decisions must be made to benefit the maximum amount of people not the few who might get their feelings hurt.
I just got this idea indirectly from a game posted by Newbie1995.
Cheating in live chess is a problem and we all know this. So how do we combat this overwehlming problem?
"The Cheater Kill Squad"
A team of moderators (who will remain unknown to anyone except the owners of chess.com). Will troll online looking to play games in live chess with anyone. Except they will use a variety of chess engines while playing. Their ratings will be manipulated so they do not become rated over 2100 no matter how many times they win. If someone happens to draw or beat them ever that person will automatically be removed from the site with their I.P address logged so they cannot join again.
It's sorta how Dateline on NBC catches those perverts looking for minors.
What do you think?
Seems to be a lot more proactive than the current system of just reporting abuse.
You'll never know if you are playing a cheat squad member or just another person. And the threat of automatic account deletion will be immediate and not take the staff's time in going over games that have been reported.