I think the "touch move" rule is flawed. Anybody else thinks so too?

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Avatar of CheckmateAndChong

Whenever I think of the "touch move" rule, I think of that time someone tried to abuse it to disrupt Hikaru while he was winning. This kind of strategy can be used in any IRL tournaments and is way more unfair than for example: adjusting your piece without declaring it first. I think even just accidentally touching one of your pieces (without even leaving the square it was at) and being forced to move it is more unfair to the player that touched said piece.

I know why the touch move rule is a thing, it's to prevent people from testing moves, bluffing and overall to keep the game fair.

But in consequence, a simple nervous tick can ruin your game, even if you didn't do anything that is remotely unfair. Meanwhile the other player can call the arbiter and sometimes purposefully destabilize you and he will face no repercussions.

I think we should be more lenient on this rule. Like only enforcing it whenever there is clear signs of abuse or at the very least, when the piece that was touched moved to a different square.

Anybody else feels that way?

Avatar of AlyssaNSM

The touch-move rule is for the better. The point of the touch-move rule is to avoid people from playing a move and then taking it back and completely switching moves before hitting the clock. It's far more fair than without it. The players know the rules, they should be careful about which pieces they touch. As for the accidentalness- that is completely up to the tournament director's choice, there is no distinct rule. If the TD believes it was an accident, they are likely to not put the touch-move rule in effect. "Nervous tick"s fall on the fault of the player, but as you play in more tournaments, it improves and hopefully the player will learn to stop making those mistakes.

Most directors will follow by this friendly tip:

Without a neutral witness, Rule 10 depends on the reliability of both the claimant and the opponent. If they disagree then the TD should strongly consider denying the claim. In most cases, by denying the claim the TD shuts the door to all false claims. Upholding a false claim usually does more harm to more players than denying an accurate claim. 

Avatar of CheckmateAndChong
AlyssaNSM wrote:

The touch-move rule is for the better. The point of the touch-move rule is to avoid people from playing a move and then taking it back and completely switching moves before hitting the clock. It's far more fair than without it. The players know the rules, they should be careful about which pieces they touch. As for the accidentalness- that is completely up to the tournament director's choice, there is no distinct rule. If the TD believes it was an accident, they are likely to not put the touch-move rule in effect. "Nervous tick"s fall on the fault of the player, but as you play in more tournaments, it improves and hopefully the player will learn to stop making those mistakes.

Most directors will follow by this friendly tip:

Without a neutral witness, Rule 10 depends on the reliability of both the claimant and the opponent. If they disagree then the TD should strongly consider denying the claim. In most cases, by denying the claim the TD shuts the door to all false claims. Upholding a false claim usually does more harm to more players than denying an accurate claim. 

I get your point and I am not advocating to completely remove the touch move rule. I just think it is not as fair as it can be in a lot of cases. There is a clear difference between touching a piece and trying moves without actually playing them. What I'm advocating for is for it to be more lenient, for example: only applying the punishment when the piece that was touched moved to a different square. Would you agree?

Avatar of GodOfFleas

You say there is a "clear difference between touching a piece and trying moves without actually playing them."

You also understand the touch rule prevents bluffing.

If I touch my knight for 30 seconds, and then let go of it and immediately move my bishop, to me that's a "clear" bluff.

But at what point are things "clear"?

At what time interval under your leniency system would I be allowed to touch my knight and then move a different piece? How would that time be measured?

Competitive games have very strict and specific rules for a reason.

Avatar of CheckmateAndChong
GodOfFleas wrote:

You say there is a "clear difference between touching a piece and trying moves without actually playing them."

You also understand the touch rule prevents bluffing.

If I touch my knight for 30 seconds, and then let go of it and immediately move my bishop, to me that's a "clear" bluff.

But at what point are things "clear"?

At what time interval under your leniency system would I be allowed to touch my knight and then move a different piece? How would that time be measured?

Competitive games have very strict and specific rules for a reason.

that's true. You raise a good point when it comes to high level competitive games. But when you accidentally touch a piece, I doubt it would be for more than a second most of the times. You're right that the line can become blurry between bluffing and accidentally touching the piece unconsciously. But I believe when there is malicious intent to make a difference in the game via bluffing, the distinction will be clear. If it's not clear, how is it even influencing the game at all? Being forced to move a piece you don't wanna move because you accidentally touched it for less than a second will influence the game a large majority of the time. And it leads to the problem I raised on my first post. Some people will call the arbiter for the most trivial of reasons because of the strictness of the rule. Like that one time someone did it to Hikaru to try and destabilize him.

Avatar of CheckmateAndChong

Also I want to add that by being more lenient, I don't mean letting players touch any piece for however long they want. And my point is directed more towards smaller clubs and tournaments rather than competitive high level tournaments.

Avatar of meerkat59

We need a rule otherwise it's going to be a circus🤣