If everyone played chess would there be less gun violence?

Sort:
Avatar of polydiatonic
woodshover wrote:

Relocating millions of animals is as impractical as you can get!!!!!!!!! Silliest idea yet.


Not to open another can of worms...I agree that relocating millions of animals is impractical.  And yet I'd bet most hunting advocates are politically on the conservative side and they'd like to relocate millions of undocumented aliens here in the USA.  I'm just saying :)

Avatar of polydiatonic
henkesb wrote:

As a gun owner, hunter, NRA member, chess player, and member of the International High IQ society, I feel extremely compelled to respond to this.

1.  There is no direct link between guns and violence as the post seems to imply.  I happen to live in a city that requires everyone to own a gun.  We have one of the lowest violent crime rates of any city of comparable population in the United States.  Owning a gun obviously does not make someone a violent person.  Using a gun to protect yourself or your family from a violent person intent on harming you also doesn't fit my definition of gun violence.  Violent people use whatever means necessary to commit violent acts.  This includes knives, baseball bats, golf clubs, automobiles and maybe even marble or slate chess boards.

2.  Playing chess instead of playing extremely violent video games or watching violent movies could potentially reduce violent behavior especially among teenagers and younger children, but it would be hard to prove.  I'm sure someone could get a government grant to study this though.


You and your high IQ seemed to have missed the point of my question.  The question has to do with whether or not chess is a sublimation of unconscious desires to engage in conflict (violent or otherwise).  It sounds like you want to make the point that there is really no such thing as gun violence, but rather violence with guns. Okay, I'll buy that bit of tautology, however the underlying question, which I think you've missed is whether those disposed towards violence would have less of a need to find expression of that emotion if they played chess. 

Avatar of polydiatonic
AnthonyCG wrote:

But that's an impossible question to answer. You can speculate till' the cows come home but there is no straight answer.


So, Anthony for you is that there are no questions worth delving into that are solved directly?  Are you limited to mathematical equations with rational explanations?  For that matter why would you even play chess since there is no way for you to solve it with a "straight" answer. 

The point, my friend, is to delve into the mysteries of the question(s) and see what wisdom may emerge through a <gasp> dialectical process.

Avatar of TheOldReb

Trysts, nice dodge. I asked a simple question that can be answered by a simple yes or no and you ignore it. I will ask again and hope you answer this time, preferably without your childish insults or wishing death on me ......or other hunters. You have stated that your definition of murder is the unnecessary killing of anything/anyone. So, I asked that if you believe killing insects is also "murder" ?  This question can be answered with a simple yes or no. I will also point out that I have not found a single reliable/authoritative source that gives the definition you give for murder so where do you get this definition or is it just your opinion ? Do you not even swat flies or mosquitoes when they bite you or invade your home ? Perhaps you just round them up and lovingly relocate them ? Do you drive?  If so you probably kill many insects every time you are in your car...... are you murdering them ?!  Please answer some of these legitimate questions .

Avatar of polydiatonic
AnthonyCG wrote:

That's fine but when it turns into a flame war I think it becomes more of a waste of time than anything. I'm all for the "deep mysteries of the questions" but arguing in circles isn't going to get us anywhere.


Well the flame not.  And instead discuss with those who will, like me.

Avatar of polydiatonic
Reb wrote:

Trysts, nice dodge. I asked a simple question that can be answered by a simple yes or no and you ignore it. I will ask again and hope you answer this time, preferably without your childish insults or wishing death on me ......or other hunters. You have stated that your definition of murder is the unnecessary killing of anything/anyone. So, I asked that if you believe killing insects is also "murder" ?  This question can be answered with a simple yes or no. I will also point out that I have not found a single reliable/authoritative source that gives the definition you give for murder so where do you get this definition or is it just your opinion ? Do you not even swat flies or mosquitoes when they bite you or invade your home ? Perhaps you just round them up and lovingly relocate them ? Do you drive?  If so you probably kill many insects every time you are in your car...... are you murdering them ?!  Please answer some of these legitimate questions .


Reb, I believe the Dali Lama has some interesting thoughts on this question..

Avatar of polydiatonic

Okay Reb, Trysts, for your enlightenment, since you've hijacked my thread the Dalai Lama says:

"We all know that taking others' lives is in general against Buddhist principles. How can we destroy and play with the lives of animals merely for fun, pleasure, and sports? It is unthinkable. Tibet, as a Buddhist country, in the past had banned hunting of animals in any form. Today there is greater awareness worldwide for the protection of not only the environment but also of animals, their rights, and their protection against torture. And therefore, even in countries where there are strong traditions of hunting, people are passing laws to ban it. A good case in point is the recent ban on fox hunting by the Scottish Parliament."

For the fill article if you wish you can look at:

http://www.tibetanliberation.org/dlvshunting.html

Avatar of TheOldReb

It has always perplexed me why gun violence bothers people more than other forms of violence ?  Suppose you are told that today you will die by violent means but you get to choose from 3 violent means how you will go...... the choices are :

A) Some thug walks up and blows your brains out with a .357 magnum

B) Two gang members , high on PCP, beat you to death with baseball bats

C) Some PETA member high on painkillers and alcohol , enraged on learning that you are a hunter, comes up and stabs you multiple times ...

Which way would you choose to leave this world ?  Can anyone honestly claim they wouldnt choose A ?!   

Avatar of manavendra
Reb wrote:

It has always perplexed me why gun violence bothers people more than other forms of violence ?  Suppose you are told that today you will die by violent means but you get to choose from 3 violent means how you will go...... the choices are :

A) Some thug walks up and blows your brains out with a .357 magnum

B) Two gang members , high on PCP, beat you to death with baseball bats

C) Some PETA member high on painkillers and alcohol , enraged on learning that you are a hunter, comes up and stabs you multiple times ...

Which way would you choose to leave this world ?  Can anyone honestly claim they wouldnt choose A ?!   


Option A is the obvious choice if you are a Vegetarian.

Avatar of kco

to the OP question the answer is no, for Reb's choice I would take A is quick and painless  

Avatar of polydiatonic
Reb wrote:

It has always perplexed me why gun violence bothers people more than other forms of violence ?  Suppose you are told that today you will die by violent means but you get to choose from 3 violent means how you will go...... the choices are :

A) Some thug walks up and blows your brains out with a .357 magnum

B) Two gang members , high on PCP, beat you to death with baseball bats

C) Some PETA member high on painkillers and alcohol , enraged on learning that you are a hunter, comes up and stabs you multiple times ...

Which way would you choose to leave this world ?  Can anyone honestly claim they wouldnt choose A ?!   


Gun violence, speaking for myself, is more troubling for the simple reason that once a gun is in hand it's too damn easy.  Simple crimes of passion lead to virtually instant death.  If there were no gun in hand the victum would have a much better chance at surviving the assualt.  And, not for nothing, the attacker would have a much better chance at not making an instantaneous chance that would reap horrible consequences for him/herself and an ever widening circle of loved onces effected by the violence; on both sides.

Btw, it's for similar reasoning that I'm personally against the death penalty.  People make mistakes, jurors, witnesses, lawyers, defendents, judges, public opinion...all of us make mistakes.  Once you kill someone there isn't any "undo".   To wit:

"better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer", expressed by the English jurist William Blackstone in his Commentaries on the Laws of England, published in the 1760s.

Avatar of FlowerFlowers

if everyone played chess...

what a lovely thought :)

Avatar of Gomer_Pyle
trysts wrote:As far as insults, you began to speak to me by calling me a fool, so crying about how I accepted that way of speaking to you is laughable.

I never called you a fool. I asked you to keep an open mind because it was apparent you didn't possess many facts regarding wildlife overpopulation problems in the USA.
I provided evidence that there is a problem and that many people are working on solutions, not all of which involve hunting.

You claimed hunting served no purpose in this modern age.
I provided some evidence that many people and organizations consider hunting to have a very useful, effective purpose.
I provided evidence that hunters provide major funding for environmental and habitat improvement projects that promote healthier wildlife populations.

You claimed killing animals is murder.
Every person must come to their own judgements on morality. We just have to disagree on this point.

Avatar of 2DecadePlayer

I think if the worlds troubles and diplomatic issues were settled on a chess board, the world might actually be at peace

Avatar of Gomer_Pyle
polydiatonic wrote:
I appreciate  your thoughts here and don't dispute much of anything you say except for a couple of points.  First, if chess playing had decreased your "reptilian brain" need for hunting how would you know?  The point is that if playing chess soothes an unconscious need for struggle, competition, violence OR whatever then you wouldn't have access to the countervailing subconscious engergies at play; that is unless you subjected yourself to deep analysis. 

Secondly, I think that it's naive to think that "no hunters" are just somewhat sadistic.  In fact I'd posit that if a person were sadistic then hunting would be the perfect "sport" for them to play out there neurosis.  There are plenty of people who like to kill things.


You're right, I probably couldn't tell if playing chess had altered any reptilian brain urges. However, rather than say chess soothes an unconscious need, I would say it's more like a relief valve that channels the unconscious need in a more acceptable direction. People have been playing competitive games and sports for a long, long time. If there has been any alleviation of an unconscious need for violence in our race it's not apparent to me. Maybe I should say that if there has actually been some alleviation we are still a frighteningly violent species.

Yes, I'm sure there are some hunters that just like to kill. Those people exist everywhere and in every society. The vast majority, though, are just normal folks following the customs of their culture.

Avatar of bigpoison
Musikamole wrote:

Deer in Monterey, California are a huge problem. There's no predator, you can't shoot them and they ruin the beautiful golf courses in that area. Folks should be allowed to shoot a certain percentage each year and use the meat to feed the poor. It's the humane thing to do.


Golf courses and cemeteries are the biggest waste of land in the U.S.  Think how much food could be cultivated on your golf courses to feed the poor!

Avatar of goldendog

Deer+handcuffs+read rights+criminal status+lawful execution=lotsa nice golf courses

...and no one gets murdered

Avatar of kco

don't forget the gophers (sp?)

Avatar of Nixda

The reason why people are scared of guns is that they make killing very easy.

It's true that its people killing, not guns, but in many situations the victim would not be dead if the attacker only had a melee weapon or even no weapon at all.

I can probably fight off an alcoholized agressor long enough for others to help me, and I can probably run away from a guy with a knife. I could also see it from quite a distance away if someone was carrying a longsword and react accordingly.

But someone pulling out a gun and shooting only leaves a VERY short moment to react.

That being said, hunting is a necessity and lawful citizens with no criminal record should be allowed to hunt as a sport if they want to.

Avatar of trysts
Gomer_Pyle wrote:


I never called you a fool.


Yes. You are right. You never called me a fool, it was "Enter the Dragon". I apologize.