If Fischer would played Karpov for the World Champion, who would win?

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schachfan1

I'd have a similar question - Why don't we ask the God? But maybe you are right, and Houdini would be able to say definitely "yes" or "no" Smile

fabelhaft

"All you people that think Bobby was afraid to play have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Tracking turned off!"

I think Fischer quitting chess in 1972 did have a bit to do with fear of not being able to live up to his own myth. It had been very difficult to make him play already the last years before he won the title. An interesting article on Fischer with some quotes from Denker and others on the subject:

"The truth was that Bobby Fischer was running scared. "Bobby was always afraid of losing," Arnold Denker says. "I don't know why, but he was. The fear was in him. He said that if he played Karpov, he was going to insist on a long match. After not playing for three years, he was very concerned about how good he would be." Shelby Lyman echoes that assessment. "Hating to lose, and having the myth destroyed," he says, "was a big part of him not playing"

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2002/12/bobby-fischer-s-pathetic-endgame/302634/

DiogenesDue

I would trust Denker more if he were not making a living off telling stories about Bobby Fischer ;)...

There's no real indication that "the fear" was any greater than any other champion's concerns about an upcoming title match.

fabelhaft

"There's no real indication that "the fear" was any greater than any other champion's concerns about an upcoming title match"

Unless the fact that he didn't play it, and almost didn't play against Spassky either, count as indications :-)

DiogenesDue
fabelhaft wrote:

"There's no real indication that "the fear" was any greater than any other champion's concerns about an upcoming title match"

 

Unless the fact that he didn't play it, and almost didn't play against Spassky either, count as indications :-)

There are numerous motivations for each.  Your quoted article (a pretty poor example of objective journalism) talks about Fischer refusing to spend time analyzing adjourned games in the '72 match because he considered Spassky "a fish"...no fear of Spassky or losing there, obviously...

I'm not saying whether or not "the fear was in him" as Denker asserts.  I'm saying you and I will never know the truth of that, and while Bobby Fischer was ridiculed for his paranoia, how else would he perceive the world after living in an apartment studying chess 14 hours a day, only to emerge world champion and having every sycophant and shyster around suddenly decide they need to meet him to ingratiate themselves and/or further their own goals?

So, while the Fischer fanboys are overboard in their ideas of Fischer, the Fischer haters/naysayers are just as guilty.

SanjeevTakru

I had followed Fischer v carefully and am a big fan. But it looks to me that he may have lost against Karpov's emotionless and precise play. After all it was Fischer who desperately avoided playing Karpov.

nobodyreally
fabelhaft wrote:

"There's no real indication that "the fear" was any greater than any other champion's concerns about an upcoming title match"

 

Unless the fact that he didn't play it, and almost didn't play against Spassky either, count as indications :-)

See, now you get caught by your own words.

There was no way he ever feared Spasski. He spotted him a 2-0 start. And after that completely destroyed him. So this "indicates" you're completely wrong. Like he would have destroyed Karpov in 1975.

Sizzle66

I remember Korchnoi stating around 1974 that it would be a big mistake for Karpov to play Fischer as he would lose terribly and it would be very harmful for his spirit...

schachfan1

It's really amazing what is all this discussion for. We can speak only about the chances each of them had in 1975, and if supposing they were about 40-45% for Karpov and thus 55-60% for Fisher, we can speak of probability, not of a definite result. Fisher was a genuis of chess, though with somewhat strange mind in things which did not concern chess. But for Fisher's uneven hot temper, and if he had been ready just to play chess, taking part in many chess events and showing high results at that after having become a champion, and if he had been ready to defend his title of a champion, to be ready to prove that he really is a champion, being ready to give the possibility for millions of chess lovers around the world to judge about his chess strength (and to enjoy his games) from results of his participation in the tournaments - I mean if Bobby, in addition to his chess genius, had been open for chess, - he would have given the chess world much more. It's a pitty that he is not with us now, may he rest in peace

Kummatmebro

Didn't Karpov himself say that he expected to lose the 1975 match, and then he expected to beat Fischer

Nemo96

Fischer is garbage he wouldve gotten his shit wrecked by Karpov

schachfan1

Is it another troll who utters unfiltered stuff, having nothing better to do?

Sizzle66

Seems like it lets hope he goes back to playing with his marbles..

nobodyreally

One cannot play with one's marbles if one has lost all one's marbles.

nobodyreally
schachfan1 wrote:

It's a pitty that he is not with us now, may he rest in peace

+1 absolutely

 

p.s. karpov's chances were zilch, not 40-45%

Spiritbro77
nobodyreally wrote:
schachfan1 wrote:

It's a pitty that he is not with us now, may he rest in peace

+1 absolutely

 

p.s. karpov's chances were zilch, not 40-45%

You seem awfully certain that Karpov, one of the best players of the 20th century had NO chance against a guy that hadn't played a single game in competition in 3 years and was paranoid and mentally unstable.... How do you know what Fischers game was like after that long a layoff?

What his mental and physical shape was?

Nemo96

Both kasparov and karpov would teach fischer a lesson or two about chess.

schachfan1

Even if not speaking about Karpov's many times stronger mental and emotional stability, it is enough to see where Karpov participated in the period 1969-1975, and what is more important - his results in that period, to see whether Karpov's chances were "zilch" or "not zilch". Bobby did have to be worried of that

Meet_Your_Sensei

If Carlsen is like Capablanca then Fisher must be powerful!

A1Rajjpuut

Fischer (being dead) would lose on time.