Incorrect Team Match Scores - Does It Even Matter? - Chess Forums

stephen_33

Mar 8, 2023

0

#1

For any club members who have ever taken part in a team match (a match between the members of two clubs), it may come as a bit of a surprise to discover that the team scores displayed on the match webpage are not always correct.

I first came across this issue by accident a couple of years ago and reported it to the staff but assumed it was the result of a rare glitch in the system. The anomalous score was corrected and I thought that would be the end of it.

But then I came across another match a few months ago that had individual team scores that didn't tally with the total of game results. I reported that too and the match was adjusted but I received no explanation of what had happened. Then the 'Sync Scores' button (visible only to club SA's) was pointed out to me - I knew of its existence but hadn't fully realised its purpose.

It was after that I decided to modify the software I use for various activities I help with, to detect anomalies in team match results and that very quickly turned up a third case. This isn't what I'd call a common problem (not that rare either) but I do find it concerning.

I use the site's API for processing match results and it troubles me that essential items of data are not entirely reliable. I've had to re-work one of my routines to bypass the team score but anyone else who's organising activities might be putting complete trust in the site's data and determining match results when that data is in fact incorrect.

I've been corresponding with another league organiser and he's of the opinion that it's quite acceptable for matches to display incorrect scores from time to time and ensuring correct scores would simply consume too much of the site's resources. He thinks it's a 'more efficient way' to use server capacity by allowing the occassional match score to be in error but I'm not at all convinced.

As I replied to him - "getting things like team scores correct at all times isn't aiming for some 'unrealistic standard of perfection', it's meeting a basic standard for a site that hosts competitive activities"

Maybe I'm behind the times but isn't it still important to do everything possible to ensure something as basic as a match score is correct? This is a chess playing site after all.

I'm interested to know what other site members think....

Kookaburrra

Mar 8, 2023

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#2

I agree. I’ve never checked and just assumed they are right.

Josechu

Mar 9, 2023

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#3

If it's an occasional error, and individual errors are fixed when they are pointed out, that suggests (to me) that it's a data error, rather than a software error. That in turn suggests that the the data is probably entered manually. i.e. somebody manually inputs the match results data, because adapting the software to do it automatically is considered to be too big a job to be worth the effort.

If that's the case then team managers would be wise to check that their match results are correct when posted!

stephen_33

Mar 9, 2023

0

#4

Hi Joe. I think it's most unlikely that any match is updated 'manually' but it's been suggested to me that the developers have chosen this situation because it's a more 'efficient' use of the servers, although I've no idea how.

I wouldn't have thought recalculating the team scores whenever a game finishes would involve an unacceptable drain on server capacity but I've never been involved in managing a website of this kind.

Another member suggested to me recently that errors creep in when accounts are closed (for fair-play) or when games time-out. That sounds a more credible explanation to me.

Whatever the reason I think it looks pretty bad to have even a small proportion of team scores that are wrong.

Josechu

Mar 12, 2023

0

#5

Hi Stephen. You are right. Retrospective adjustment of scores for fair play violations etc. would probably be a real pain to programme, so it probably does make sense to let it ride and see if anybody objects.

stephen_33

Mar 12, 2023

0

#6

"Retrospective adjustment of scores for fair play violations etc. would probably be a real pain to programme"

I don't think so because the site does this successfully in match after match as far as I'm aware - when an account is closed (fair-play) all points won by the cheating player are confiscated and provided the opponent account hasn't been closed, they're awarded to that player.

That's done only up to the point when the match finishes at which point I think the team scores are 'locked'. If it can be done without error in the majority of matches it makes you wonder what's happening in the ones that go wrong.

stephen_33

Apr 5, 2023

0

#7

Here's another one I've just discovered:-

KOTML S32 R5 PURPLE HAZE vs Team Match Chess

The current score for Team Match Chess is shown as 4 but add up the individual game points and it's 5!

Kookaburrra

Apr 5, 2023

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#8

Another bug!

UpcommingGM

Apr 5, 2023

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#9

stephen_33 wrote:

Here's another one I've just discovered:-

KOTML S32 R5 PURPLE HAZE vs Team Match Chess

The current score for Team Match Chess is shown as 4 but add up the individual game points and it's 5!

This particular case. I believe it is a lag and will be updated soon.

It happens a lot more in tournament table. You win a game and it takes some time before it is updated in the table.

jairusp

Apr 5, 2023

0

#10

sorry again

[removed -- MS]

stephen_33

Apr 5, 2023

0

#11

jairusp wrote:

sorry again

// Get all HTML elements
var elements = document.getElementsByTagName("*");

// Loop through all HTML elements
for (var i = 0; i < elements.length; i++) {

.......

What exactly is that meant to be?

jairusp

Apr 6, 2023

0

#12

auto clicker

ImperfectAge

Apr 7, 2023

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#13

Yeah I agree with Stephen. I can't understand the idea of 'server pressure' caused by not updating team match scores when each match game finishes.

This seems to me, to be a plain old fashioned bug

stephen_33

Apr 7, 2023

0

#14

UpcommingGM wrote:

This particular case. I believe it is a lag and will be updated soon.

It happens a lot more in tournament table. You win a game and it takes some time before it is updated in the table.

"..will be updated soon" - oh really?

The score for the Team Match Chess team is now shown as '6' but add up the individual game points and they come to '7'!

I posted that match link two days ago, so it's about 48 hours now and the score is still incorrect.

stephen_33

Apr 7, 2023

0

#15

jairusp wrote:

auto clicker

Not familiar with that, would you elaborate please?

jairusp

Apr 7, 2023

0

#16

automated clicking

stephen_33

Apr 12, 2023

0

#17

Some more I've just discovered:-

(12/Apr/2023 10:21)

TMCL 2023 E1 R3:Nova Jugoslavija - New Yugoslavia vs Team Birmingham

The score for Nova Jugoslavija - New Yugoslavia is actually 15.5, not 14.5 as shown.

TMCL 2023 Div E R4: Friends Uniting Against Mental Illness vs Nova Jugoslavija - New Yugoslavia

The score for Nova Jugoslavija - New Yugoslavia is actually 4 not 3.

TMCL2023 R3 E Let's Castle vs KNIGHTS of the REALM

The score for Let's Castle is actually 10.5, not 9.5.

stephen_33

Apr 12, 2023

0

#18

stephen_33 wrote:

Here's another one I've just discovered:-

KOTML S32 R5 PURPLE HAZE vs Team Match Chess

The current score for Team Match Chess is shown as 4 but add up the individual game points and it's 5!

I thought this needed updating - the displayed score for TMC is now 12.5 but the game points add up to 13.5.

It's been over 6 days now so the suggestion "I believe it is a lag and will be updated soon" looks more and more (misguidedly) optimistic?

stephen_33

Apr 12, 2023

0

#19

This problem is more widespread than I realised. I've just been collating results for a league I help run and it spat out these supplementary reports:-

_

stephen_33

Apr 12, 2023

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#20

The list of incorrect team scores in post #19 is for teams across a number of rounds, which is why some teams may appear multiple times and there's a link to the match in each case.