IQ= Chess skill?

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StairwayToTruth
Trutharrow wrote:
StairwayToTruth wrote:

People never reach their full potential in chess ---


 I suggest people do  reach their full potential. To say, "I could have gotten better if I'd practised more"; or, "If I'd had more time"; or whatever, is simply explaining why you've reached your full potential.


Once again, excellent username. We should work together to find more 'Truths' on chess.com! ;)

 

But back to the main point - the potential I refer to is the maximum ability a person could reach given nearly unlimited time and practice. You're refering to the simple limits a person places on himself / herself due to choices, rather than ability. If a person plays chess for a couple of months and then stops permanently, chances are this person has not reached their full potential in chess (i.e. this person would play much better with a few more years of practice).

 

As I explained before (after doing some research), the only way we could really calculate the relationship properly is to allow people to play as much as they could and then compare the results among different IQ-level groups. I'm sure there will be some correlation, but there's never an absolute answer - all individual cases are still individual! Additionally, since we can't properly perform this type of experiment, we really can't get an absolute answer. :)

 

Since this uses credible sources to support its argument (which you see up there), I'll repost it: http://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-players/iq-and-chess-the-real-relationship

Trutharrow
StairwayToTruth wrote:
Trutharrow wrote:
StairwayToTruth wrote:

People never reach their full potential in chess ---


 I suggest people do reach their full potential. To say, "I could have gotten better if I'd practised more"; or, "If I'd had more time"; or whatever, is simply explaining why you've reached your full potential.


Once again, excellent username. We should work together to find more 'Truths' on chess.com! ;)

 Smile I'm up for that, lol.

But back to the main point - the potential I refer to is the maximum ability a person could reach given nearly unlimited time and practice. You're refering to the simple limits a person places on himself / herself due to choices, rather than ability. If a person plays chess for a couple of months and then stops permanently, chances are this person has not reached their full potential in chess (i.e. this person would play much better with a few more years of practice).

 Our differences relate to the hypothetical vs. reality. IQ represents an average score based on an aggregate of verbal, numerical and spatial test measurements, and as someone else has pointed out on this thread, it seems likely that the ability to mentally manipulate spatial relationships must be most important to be a good player. So while I agree there must be some correlation between IQ and chess playing capability, it is clearly not linear. We don't get an opportunity to see much mathematical performance here at chess.com (except for comments about ELO calculations, lol), but judging from some of the contributions to the forums, some very good chess players (high spatial IQ) clearly have some deficiences in the verbal department, which likely drags down their IQ scores.Wink

 

 


dannyhume

Are you 2 truthies the same dudemar?

It reminds me of this time in college when I ran a smear campaign against one of my former roommates who likewise ran a smear campaign against me when we both ran for campus president.  He claimed he had an IQ of 166 but did not have the mind/motor connection that enables most people to mold their vocal cords for whispering, yet he never grasped this concept and remained entirely oblivious to this fact.  But I digress.  We'd post ads saying "[dudemar] may strictly have the best idea about [insert stupid campus issue] but when it comes to [other lame campus issue] he is not up to the grade; vote [other dudemar]" and vice versa.  But then 1 week before the big election, we strategically joined campaigns and had every campus issue covered perfectly and would have easily won, but we couldn't agree to who'd be president versus vice-president, so we withdrew from the race.  We and a few others then later tried to form a band, but none of us played any instruments, so we tried to figure out who'd learn/play what instrument and reached a tentative agreement.  The band's name was Corn for August* because we couldn't play anything yet, but the seed was planted and, like corn, we'd grow into the full product and be a real band to harvest by August.  But then one of the dudemars went behind the rest of our backs and decided he wanted to be the bassist instead of play drums, so he got his rich parents to buy him a kickarse bass guitar, amp, and professional lessons.  We were okay with it, but then that dudemar and another member of the band stopped getting along for entirely unrelated reasons and so the dream died before reaching the stage.  We all eventually graduated and moved on (I believe the IQ 166 guy became a lawyer in NY and made repeated unsubstantiated claims that he was married, while the predrummer-turned-prebassist became some sort of medical professional).  But then Corn for August* was replanted more than a decade later as a formidable trivia team for UFC outings at Hooters.  We were 2-time champs, but once Fox and Hounds started playing UFC with better food, seating, screens, and sound, we started going there instead, but since they had no trivia competition, Corn for August* was reaped no more.   

If you are really looking for truth, me and my father combined know everything.  As far as whether IQ and chess skill correlate, my father knows that one.

*copyright 1995 dannyhume

jeanniecandy

Chess skill is directly attributable to memory. Just as it has been proven that "smart" people have better memories than "not so smart" people...the better your memory, the better your chess potential.

Computers are not smart, a bundle of wires and plastic and metal cannot be smart. It draw upon its massive memory to make good moves. Same with people.

TheGrobe
I think maybe that oversimplified it a bit -- I'd say pattern recognition and analytical calculation capabilities are equally important, plus I'm not convinced that the link between memory and intelligence is quite so strong or clear.
RalphS

@TheGrobe, I think there's no doubt - not even a little - that IQ almost equals a good memory

I go to school in a class with at least slightly more intelligent people, and I see that their memory is so much better compared to the people who follow lower education. Bobby Fischer, IQ 187, he memorized every book he read, coincidence?

TheGrobe

Let's go out on a limb and grant you that.  I don't know if it does or not, but I'm feeling generous.

Is the reverse true?  Most assuredly not, I have met many counterexamples -- unintelligent people with superb memories.

So if we go out on another limb, and grant that all it takes to play great chess is a fantastic memory -- again, I don't think I buy it -- then it stands to reason that unintelligent people should be capable of playing great chess.

So even setting aside the absurd assumptions, the logic doesn't stand up.

OsageBluestem

Memory is a huge part of it. However, one also has to be able to make something happen out of a position he remembers. One has to have tactical vision and planning skills. Rational thinking.

ButWhereIsTheHorse

First off, iq determinates many different areas of ability, Chess is just 1 of those areas, so Iq's have nothing to do with chess elo. Cool

OsageBluestem
Eopithecus wrote:

Just out of curiosity has anyone done a study of language vs chess skills. Frequently you hear about all these GM's that speak a large number of languages. Then you have young children that are very successful at a very early stage like Carlsen and Karjakin that certainly like experience and study time but still excell. Does Chess skill and Language Skill correlate positively?


That's an interesting question. I have a lot of respect for those who speak many languages fluently. That takes a lot of memory power. I imagine that there is some correlation there.