Is chess superiority transitive?

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Irontiger

The whole Elo rating system is based on that assumption of transitivity. (More precisely it's based on the hypothesis that a one-dimensional parameter is enough to describe some player's strength, hence the parameters of all players can be totally ordered.)

Whether it is true is another whole question of course, but seeing how robust the rating system is, I would tend to think it has robust foundations too. My opinion, of course.

 

@anyone quoting triplets of players with nontransitive scores : any three players of roughly equal level are likely to exhibit such behaviour. It's just statistics.

For instance, I just organized a heads-or-tails world championship. A won to B, B to C and C to A, as it would happen 1/8th of the time (1/4th if you allow the circle to run in the other direction). Does it mean anything deep about the game of heads-and-tails and the style of players ?

fabelhaft
Irontiger wrote:

The whole Elo rating system is based on that assumption of transitivity. (More precisely it's based on the hypothesis that a one-dimensional parameter is enough to describe some player's strength, hence the parameters of all players can be totally ordered.)

Whether it is true is another whole question of course, but seeing how robust the rating system is, I would tend to think it has robust foundations too. My opinion, of course.

Yes, I think the rating system is quite reliable. The criticism against it often depends on single results being overestimated as a sign that the rating system is "wrong". If Carlsen had been ill in November or had the worst week of his life most people would probably have interpreted that as Anand being the best player in the world, not as if Carlsen had one horrible result.

mcris
Ubik42 wrote:
According to FIDE congress 1972, rule 16.7, sub-paragraph "B", "No player shall wear any clothing or material that covers his head during an indoor game".

That should improve your results.

Isn't hair a material? Then how about wigs?

madhacker
gnomechessman wrote:

These types of anomalies show that ratings aren't a precise science, as a single number can't encapsulate all of a player's strenghts and weaknesses; Of course they tend to be probabilistically true over time. But even most very strong players have some deficiencies in their game, whether it's in the opening or other stages. How these strengths and deficiencies line up between two players is highly variable. Such unexpected losses can provide great insight into where a player needs more work. 

+1

Chess skill is not a two dimensional line of "weak" to "strong". It's a multi-dimensional space containing an infinite number of interconnected intangibles. The ELO number provides only a very abstracted overview.

fabelhaft

Tal vs Spassky is an especially fun example. The years around Tal's winning the World Championship, 1954-65, he scored 2-9 in wins against Spassky. One of the wins came from a lost position, and it could easily have been 1-10. Spassky peaked after that period, but still Tal went 5-0 against him after 1965.

Andre_Harding
madhacker wrote:
gnomechessman wrote:

These types of anomalies show that ratings aren't a precise science, as a single number can't encapsulate all of a player's strenghts and weaknesses; Of course they tend to be probabilistically true over time. But even most very strong players have some deficiencies in their game, whether it's in the opening or other stages. How these strengths and deficiencies line up between two players is highly variable. Such unexpected losses can provide great insight into where a player needs more work. 

+1

Chess skill is not a two dimensional line of "weak" to "strong". It's a multi-dimensional space containing an infinite number of interconnected intangibles. The ELO number provides only a very abstracted overview.

This.

Alexander_Poddiakov

It seems that not only people, but arrangements of black and white chess pieces can form such nontransitive superiority cycles that, for example:
- arrangement A of white pieces is more preferable to choose in pair with arrangement B of black pieces;
- arrangement B of black pieces is more preferable to choose in pair with arrangement C of white pieces;
- arrangement C of white pieces is more preferable to choose in pair with arrangement D of black pieces;
- arrangement D of black pieces is more preferable to choose in pair with arrangement A of white pieces.


A white wins B black, B black wins C white,  C white wins D black, but D black wins A white. White starts in all 4 positions.
Here A white wins B black, B black wins C white, C white wins D black, but D black wins A white.
White starts in all 4 positions (https://www.nkj.ru/archive/articles/30869/) .

See also https://www.nkj.ru/archive/articles/31727/ about ways to build such nontransitive chains of positions--including chains of practically unlimited length and the shortest ones with 2 pieces only, and about reasons why chains in which white starts in all positions are more interesting.

Alexander Poddiakov